The Incurable Hindu Fondness for PN Oak
PN Oak, Taj Mahal is really a Hindu Temple
By Koenraad Elst
Countless Hindus nowadays swear by the historical and linguistic theses of journalist and self-styled historian PN Oak. Twenty years ago, I expected his star to wane and get eclipsed by more sensible voices of Hindu historical revisionism, but the opposite has happened. In NRI/PIO circles, at least, he seems to enjoy a lasting popularity. What a pity. Purushottam Nagesh Oak (1917-2007) was a soldier in Subhas Chandra Bose’s Indian National Army. That much should endear him to Hindus, fair enough. But he is better known and revered for his theories on history and etymology. And these are best put aside and forgotten, instead of being parroted by Hindus on ever larger forums. In the main, three lines of argument have been pioneered or promoted by P.N. Oak. One is that the Taj Mahal, the Red Fort and a few other well-known Indo-Muslim buildings were really Hindu temples, not built but only usurped by the Muslims. The second is that Vikramaditya (1st cent. BCE) ruled Arabia, a claim that is then linked with the more widespread belief that the Kaaba was originally a Hindu temple featuring a Shiva Lingam. The third is that names of places and people around the globe are of Sanskrit origin and thus testify to the omnipresence and omnipotence of the ancient Hindus. All three are fanciful and totally unfounded. We will consider them in reverse order.
Donkey etymology
Etymology is the science of the original, or at least oldest traceable, forms of words. It is a tricky field and requires knowledge of older stages of a language and of related languages. You may find that seemingly similar words are unrelated while totally dissimilar words may prove to be related.
Consider e.g. the French word feu and the German word Feuer, quite similar in appearance. Moreover, they are identical in meaning, viz. “fire”. So are they cognate words? No, Germanic f- is evolved from Indo-European p-, and Feuer is related to Greek pur, meaning “fire”, whence English pyromaniac and (funeral) pyre, ultimately from IE *péhur. By contrast, French f- generally preserves an Latin f-, which in most cases evolved from IE th/dh- (compare Latin fumus, “smoke”, to Greek thumos, “spirit”, and Sanskrit dhumah, “smoke”). In this case, feu is from focus, “hearth”, and fovere, “burn” (related to Sanskrit dahati), ultimately from IE *dhegh, “burn”. (The forms marked with asterisk* are not attested in writing but reconstructed from younger attested forms.)
Or consider e.g. the English words let. Yes, word-s, for there are two identical-looking words let. Here we don’t need to move up as far as the dim Indo-European past to find their seeming identity deceptive. One is the verb meaning “to allow”, “not to prevent”. The other is less common but known in the expression “without let or hindrance”, where let is a synonym of “hindrance”, meaning “prevent”, “block”, or the very opposite of the other let in the sense of “allow”. How can that be? It becomes clear when we look back only a thousand years, to Old English, or even closer, to its nearest cognate, Dutch. In Dutch till today we have on the one hand the verb lat-en, “let, allow” and on the other the verb be-let-ten, “prevent” and the noun be-let, “hindrance, objection”. In English the distinction between the sounds of the two stems has eroded and they have ended up coinciding. The identical form conceals different origins.
This caveat against trusting appearances is systematically violated by P.N. Oak. To him, similarity proves a common origin. And that common origin is always a one-way street: any word resembling a Sanskrit word must have been borrowed from Sanskrit, never the other way around. Some fifteen years ago, I received a letter from him in which he proposed to collaborate. That proposal made no sense to me as we were working along very different lines and from radically conflicting premises, I suppose he hadn’t even noticed that. There is only one version of history approved by the Nehruvians, with which both of us disagree, but there are many alternatives, some sound and others nonsensical. In passing, he claimed that my native tongue, Dutch, is “the language of the Daityas”. A dubious compliment, for the Daitya-s are demons, kind of opposite to the Aditya-s or gods.
Similar etymological claims have been made by Oak and his acolytes in large numbers. Thus, England, named in reality after the Germanic tribe of the Angles (whence East-Anglia, Anglo-Saxon), is explained as originating from Angulisthan, which happens to mean “finger-land”. Arabia is derived from Arvasthan, “horse-land”. In fact, the name has a Semitic root attested since the Akkadian empire in the 3rd millennium BCE. Horses have nothing to do with Arabia but originate in the Eurasian plain, stretching northwest from Bactria, thousands of miles from Arabia, where they were imported only in the 2nd millennium BC. Rome is said to be derived from Rama, and Vatican (actually from vates, “inspired poet”, cognate to the Germanic theonym Woden/Odin, hence “poets’ hill”) from Veda-vatika, “Veda park”, incidentally “proving” that Christianity is an offshoot of Vedic dharma. In cases where a foreign name coincides completely with a Sanskrit word, such as the Amerindian ethnonym Maya and Shankara’s philosophical concept maya, there is simply no stopping the euphoric eureka-s in the Oakist camp.
I will not take the easy route of amusing the readers with a long list of Oakisms. Let us only note that this line of thought has caught on in broad Hindu circles. A textbook introducing Hinduism to UK schoolchildren, Hindu Dharma (at least the first edition, perhaps it has been corrected since) claims that the Tibetan title Lama, “ordained monk”, is derived from Rama, the hero’s name. Firstly, this is not true: Lama is pure Tibetan, belonging to the Sino-Tibetan language family, unrelated to Indo-Aryan. The word was originally pronounced, and still written in Tibetan as, bla-ma, of which the first syllable means “upper”, as in bla-dakh, “high mountain-pass”, better known as Ladakh. Secondly, how would it make sense? Why should a community of celibate renunciates name itself after a romantic warrior-prince? Likewise, what is gained by deriving foreign names from Sanskrit? Proving that the ancient Hindus were big losers who once dominated the world and were then chased from all those lands except for India? It seems that a lot of Hindus, when glimpsing a mirage that flatters their collective ego, suspend their critical sense and go ecstatic.
King Vikram and the Arab ghost
On quite a few Hindu websites, you find the claim that king Vikramaditya, presumably the one whose name is linked to the Vikram Samvat calendar (starting 58 BCE, so that 2010 CE roughly coincides with 2067 VS), ruled over Arabia. One can understand where the idea originates: in confusion over genuine data, viz. his proverbial defeat of the Yavana (“Ionian”, i.e. stemming from the lands to India’s northwest) or Shaka (“Scythian”) invaders. “Defeat” can be read as “conquest”, hence conquest of their homelands, hence conquest of all the lands who armies have been labelled by the Indian defenders as Yavanas or Shakas, i.e. Central and West Asia. This could be reckoned as including even Ionia (the formerly Greek west coast of Anatolia) and definitely Arabia, land of origin of invaders like Mohammed bin Qasim, and of the religion of India’s numerous Turkic and Afghan invaders.
So, the shift from Vikram as defeater of northwestern invaders to Vikram as conqueror of the lands to the northwest is understandable. But it is unfounded all the same. There was plenty of literature in West Asia in Vikramaditya’s time, in Greek, Latin, Egyptian and various Semitic dialects, yet none ever mentions Vikramaditya. Conversely, in what little reliable historical testimony of Vikramaditya that we have, we find no recognizable description of Arabia nor a narrative of its conquest.
But, according to those Hindu websites, there is an Arabic record of Vikramaditya’s glorious presence in Arabia, the Sayar-ul-Okul, “memorable words”, said to be available in the Maktab-al-Sultania (Royal library) in Istanbul. But none of them has ever cared to go and see the book. And all of these references can be traced to P.N. Oak, apparently the only person in the world who has ever seen this spectacularly revisionist source of history. This reminds us of the manuscript purportedly left by Jesus in a Ladakhi monastery, where a late-19th-century Russian adventurer claimed to have seen it, without ever being confirmed in this finding by a second eyewitness, yet successful in setting millions of Hindus and New-Agers jubilating that “Jesus lived in India”, thereby only strengthening the missionary claim on India and on Hindu souls. For neither claim is there the slightest serious evidence. Believers who take Oak’s bait do so at their own peril: they take the risk of being outed as fools.
As for the Kaaba being a Shiva temple, this is untrue but it has a serious kernel of truth. Typologically it was of course Pagan “idol” temple. Muslims recognized Hinduism as essentially the same kind of idol-worship as the native Arab religion. The Kaaba’s presiding deity was the moon-god Hubal, similar to Shiva in that the latter is depicted as carrying the moon on his head. His three goddesses Al-Lat, Uzza and Manat, were believed by the Muslims to have taken refuge in the Somnath (Shiva) temple on the Gujarat coast. This is the reason why more than any other, that particular Hindu temple was singled out for destruction upon destruction.
Paganism has thrown up similar deities in widely separated parts of the globe. The Arabs could easily think up a moon god and a triple goddess without ever having heard of Shiva and his Parvati, Durga and Kali. And if at all there was a Hindu influence at work here, it can easily be explained through the well-attested trade contacts rather than through a fairy-tale of King Vikram.
The Taj Mahal a Shiva temple?
In autumn 2009, one Dr. Radheshyam Brahmachari posted an article series, “Distortion of Indian History For Muslim Appeasement” to various Hindutva lists and to the vanguard Islam-critical website faithfreedom.org, e.g.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
(where it seems to have been pulled sometime since, probably under the impact of the kind of criticism that I will now formulate). The message he develops is entirely based on PN Oak’s influential thesis that the Taj Mahal is a Shiva temple usurped by the Moghuls. Other mighty instances of Indo-Muslim architecture including the Red Fort are likewise claimed to be originally Hindu structures.
In fact, Hindu tradition has handbooks on temple-building, and none contain the groundplan and features of the Taj Mahal. Nor is there any Hindu temple past or present that looks like the Taj Mahal even remotely. The building may well stand on the site of a Rajput pavilion expropriated by or gifted to the Moghul, but it never ever was a Shiva temple.
In defence of his thesis, Brahmachari challenges the sceptics to explain one particular inscription dedicating an unspecified marble temple in the area to Vishnu. It is not clear from the inscription as given by him that one of the temples stood at the very site of the Taj Mahal. According to his own data, at any rate, the inscription is from ca. 1150 AD. That is well before the destruction of just about every temple in North India by Ghori and Aibak in 1192-94 and by their successors in the Delhi Sultanate. Especially in Agra, lying on the main route of Muslim advance and a sometime Muslim capital, no sizable temple could have been left standing in that orgy of iconoclasm. So there is some 500 years between the destruction of the said marble temples and the appearance of the Taj Mahal.
At any rate, even if standing on a Hindu site, the Taj Mahal is absolutely no Hindu building. It entirely follows the conventions of Indo-Saracenic architecture, with domes and arches borrowed by the first Muslims in West-Asia from the Byzantines, with no Hindu connection in sight anywhere. As a grave, too, it is wildly contrary to Hindu sensibilities. Only accomplished (jivanmukta) sages are buried, other human bodies are cremated or, in related (Parsi, Tibetan) traditions, left to disintegrate under the impact of animals and the elements. The idea of keeping decomposing human bodies close to human centres of habitation in graveyards is repulsive to the Hindu mind. It is a sign of Hindus’ estrangements from their roots that they insist on claiming this un-Hindu site, probably because (Brahmachari writes as much) it is applauded world-wide. Well, proud Hindus don’t care for the poor taste of Western tourists and may point out that the Taj Mahal is bland and vulgar when compared with Ajanta and Ellora, the Meenakshi temple or the Elephanta caves.
The typical Oakist argument exemplifies some flaws in the Hindu nationalist mind. In his very first sentence of his Taj article, Brahmachari falsely claims that three Western authorities have confirmed that the Taj was built in the Hindu temple style. None of them, however, is quoted as explicitly saying so. I won’t accuse Brahmachari of lying; the far more common source of untrue claims is self-delusion. Misreading bonafide documents, like a child misunderstanding a text by and for grown-ups, is probably the most common source of Hindutva misconceptions. Every reader who checks with the original, or who even only knows the field in general, will see through these false claims, the main exception being some even sillier fellow Hindus egged on by their eagerness to find some soothing delusion to indulge. At any rate, if a Westerner or anyone else can believe that the Taj is in the Hindu temple style, he clearly has never seen a temple. And hence is not an “authority”.
The appeal to authority is one particularly harmful Hindutva trait. Rather than thinking for themselves, Hindutva polemicists prefer to latch onto some all-knowing Guru and unwisely expect everybody else to be equally taken in by this mindless reliance on authority. It’s like in the crisis in the BJP, where most arguments are not about: “What line should we, the BJP membership, take?”, but rather: “Which big man can come and save us from this mess?”
Dr. Brahmachari’s and Mr. Oak’s own writings exemplify yet another eyesore trait of Hindutva polemic. When a Hindutva history-rewriter uses logical connectors like “this proves”, “therefore”, “this provides another evidence for…”, you’d better watch out. Invariably, a non-sequitur or other logical fallacy is following.
In the Oakist case for the Red Fort as a Hindu building, we get the following instance, among others. The whole case is built on the presence of Hindu motifs in the Red Fort. Part of this claim is simply false. The so-called Aum sign next to the sun wheel in the gate is just a flourish, distinctly different from the real, Aum sign (e.g. vertically symmetrical, which the OM sign is not). But even to the extent that the claim is true, it doesn’t prove what Oak deduces from it. Firstly, the building was built by a Muslim ruler, in the sense that he ordered it built, but in actual stone it was built by Hindu masons, who slipped a few Hindu elements in. There are numerous instances of this in Moghul architecture. But they couldn’t go too far, so you don’t see any Hindu deities depicted, or emphatically Hindu symbols. The presence of elephants, cited as distinctly un-Islamic, is a borderline case in Muslim sensitivities, but not off-limits and in fact fairly common in Moghul Indo-Saracenic art (indeed, even humans are routinely depicted, at least in the Moghul school of painting).
Secondly, a certain amount of Hindu presence was a deliberate part of Muslim building policy. Theologically, it made good sense to Muslims to incorporate recognizably Hindu (but non-deity) elements in their architecture as a sign of the submission of Hindus to Islam, vide e.g. the parts of the Kashi Vishvanath temple visibly present in the mosque that forcibly replaced it. Orthodox theologians like the Wahhabis did indeed reject this syncretism, and took it as a sign of the Islamic laxism that in their view caused the downfall of the Moghuls,— thereby implicitly testifying to the presence of non-Islamic elements in Moghul art. So, even if some Hindu elements could be discerned in the Red Fort, it still does not deny its belonging to the Indo-Muslim building style.
Conclusion
In my close involvement with the Ayodhya debate, I noticed how excellent Hindu historians and archaeologists were very successful at finding evidence, but rather poor in presenting a coherent picture of where exactly their findings fit into the argumentation (a job with which I busied myself). If that is true for real historians, it is all the more true for amateurs like Oak and Brahmachari. For even if their case that the Red Fort was built by a Hindu rather than a Muslim ruler were true, what would it prove? That even when in possession of such a mighty stronghold, the Hindus were too incompetent to retain Delhi in the face of aggression by the militarily far less sophisticated Muslims? That Muslims were incapable of building forts of their own, though the Muslim world inside and outside the subcontinent has quite a few? PN Oak and his followers are not only unable to prove their points, they are also totally confused about why perforce they should want to prove those specific points.
This self-defeating Quixotic exercise can only compromise the credibility of its authors, and of all those trusting enough to convey it. That is why it is grimly irresponsible to contaminate with this nonsense a spearhead website in the struggle for the hearts and minds, faithfreedom.org. That website was created by ex-Muslims who try to help Muslims break free from the mental prison of Islam. Its only weapon is the truth, factual data presented in a scholarly manner, the light of reason that alone is able to defeat Islamic obscurantism. The enemy will love it if such a centre of truth gets tainted with the eager but silly delusions peddled by the Oakist crowd. If Dr. Brahmachari were perchance an enemy agent, he would do exactly what he has actually done in this case. Hare-brained Hindutva polemicists are ten a penny, but one who is in a position to drag down with himself a quality entreprise, that’s exceptional.
The popularity of PN Oak’s theses is a sign of gross immaturity among contemporary Hindu activists. It indicates confusion regarding the facts of religious conflict in Indian history, along with a narcissistic greed, a morbid desire to lay ludicrous ownership claims to all manner of precious objects produced by outsiders (as if Hindu Dharma’s genuine achievements weren’t enough to be proud of). In that respect, it is of one piece with claims that Hindus in Rama’s age already used helicopters. But helicopters would at least be a more progressive and scientific achievement to show off than a mere grave, no matter how embellished. No, the best thing to do here is to take the advice of genuine Hindu historians like R.C. Majumdar and Sita Ram Goel, which is to ignore the P.N. Oak school of history. Let it pass gently into the night.
Also See
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oh im in my old age already am i and even if i was i will still chuck doggie biscuts to you even then so dont worry..And now You trying to be funny but its obvious you are hurting because you have no importance at all with anyone and thats why you are coming back here like dog back for his bone.When you going to start begging to me to get your articles up again ? or maybe you should kneel like a dog first like you do to your Italian queen who also lives in Delhi .I wont ring you up as i would prefer you to teach me a lesson when i delhi because i need some entertainment as you will be back to what you do the best and thats to BEG..
“I’m neither promoting nor questioning PN Oak as I already said,”
oh really its very obvious what you are promoting..What the foundations are now becoming weak all of a sudden and your are looking for a way to get out of it lol
Ghiridar is very good example and incarnation of ‘The Incurable Hindu Fondness for PN Oak’ woof woof woof lol
not even zero even the number system were invented by hindu almost 2000 yr back. taj mahal was built around 17s that time indian measurement system observatory jantar mantar was also built so they may have taken that measurement. and if taj as hindu temple then it total reject that hands of workers were cut by the king so they dont try to make another taj, the hands were cut under sharia law. and about sikhs being hindu only in india, hindu say that no one gives a crap to you thinking outside india, just becuase few sikhs visit temple that doesnt make them hindu. go and read guru granth sahib, the sikh text it has condemn Vedas as fake. how they are still hindu. hehe, typical rss nationalist definition. and about buddhism being hindu, go ask a proper follower of buddhism from east asia they dont give a damn or may be tell you buddhist brothers in sri lanka to stop killing hindus.
Ravi modern day sikhism is colonial maucliffe sikhism created by the british but the real sikhs are the ones who follow Sikhi which is part of the Santhani sikhs like the nigangs and udhasis ect who do class themselves hindus but the mainstream sikhs also hate them.The orignial sikh path has originated from vaishnavism but also has elements of shaktism and shaivaism .Ive seen old sikh battle gear adorned with images hindu gods but unfortunately modern days sikhs under the influence of the colonial sikhs who are also anti hindu who hindus shouldnt beg to saying they are part of us or it just make their heads bigger
The hari mandir is named after Hari (vishnu) and the hindu gods are all through granth sahib but these modern day sikhs try to ignore it because they want to promote a new monotheist religion which is anti idolatry which believes in one god lol
In a paper published in Current Science,
Balasubramaniam has shown that the modular plan of the Taj Mahal complex is based on use of grids of sides measuring 60 and 90 “vitasti”.He says the study has established that the design and architecture of the Taj is based on traditional Indian units codified in “Arthasastra” and that “there is nothing foreign” in its design”.
END OF ARGUMENT.
The highest diversity of R1a1 genome which is present in north india, the highest diversity of J2b north india. The origins of europeans INDEED ARE in north india. So why should we deny this? For years aryan invasion was enforced and not even questioned, but when facts, genetics, prove indeed that acutally it was from North india that man migrated out of and into europe, the genetics of both europeans and indian SHOW THIS.
As indian did migrate out, then its not FAR FETCHED that those tribes that DID MOVE OUT, TOOK WITH THEM THE BASIC VEDIC CULTURE……
TRUTHd, Why you take things out of context ? Did Balasubramaniam say its a hindu temple ? hes saying that the taj is on is based on traditional Indian units and thats it .Have you checked all the other buildings which are most probably made using traditional Indian units ?
origin of man started in africa, have you read out of africa theory.
Man so much emotions in your posts. I feel like yawning.
Anyways, beggars in agra are atleast begging on their own soil unlike beggars in Europe like you who beg on foreign soil. Begging from your parent is one thing and begging in front of others is different. Yep, my India unfortunately has an Italian lady in her administration, but I guess its still far better than having an entire administration of british underneath whom people like you beg and breed like malaria mosquitoes to be conspiring against their own masters and blood, using and begging people to write articles that suit you, and abusing India from far off.
Articles? I thought you were begging me to write a few like you asked Koenraad Elst since you can’t write any article in your old fragile age. And since you think I’m debted anyhow, you can surely ask to remove everything. Its an open challenge to you. My articles should be removed in a week! C’mon get started instead of oinking like pig about articles to everyone.
Understand your position first in the entire system of articles kiddo before thinking of yourself as kind of god. People’s articles can be published with or without you. And hence your existence alone is irrelevant in the chain. The ultimate aim for me is indeed promotion of Hinduism. The legs never say I’m bigger than the brain and the brain doesn’t accuse legs. But your case seems to be unique!
“Dog biscuits, schizophrenia, abuses, PN is nutcase, emotional expert judgments” seem to be your only reply to everyone who questioned your owner and you. And yea, You can have the last post wins……M already bored by your emotional constipation!
ANd yes, O great keyboard commando, I do beg you to get my articles removed. Have mercy!
again you seem to just reflect your inferiority complex that ive given you from day one from when you heard my accent where like a typical slave ended up with a lingering inferiority complex.. Do want me to teach how to get a british accent and maybe you can get your girlfriend back instead of barking as an inferior specimen ruled by an italian pizza maker in your own country lol whats happened to your guitar band gone out of tune like your useless argument garbed behind pseudo intellectualism .You cant even promote hinduism to a dog let anyone human.We Hindus dont need losers like you who can only bark on the net and make empty threats thousands of miles away then beg to get their articles up who no one is really interested in..If you are so bored then why you coming back here like a fly around dogs diarrhoea.Im sure theres plenty to find in the gutters you live in lol
With morons like you who brag about knowing Vedic Wisdom but act totally pathetic because you cant handle a debate which is beyond their intellect is the very reason us ‘real’ hindus have to keep on fighting the enemies with even more obstacles .Why dont you do us a favour and convert to the religions which suit your backward mentality and intellect as im sure they will welcome you with open arms and you might just get the recognition you want which you cant get with us ‘real’ hindus lol
@ Girdhar – //@Ravi : I think you need a psychiatric check up. What does the number of comments have to do with article 1 or article 2?//
it shows the priority of people. you people are more interested in defending rss and pn oak rather than people and religion. oh i am hurt, someone said something about my guruji, lets go and defend half pants guruji. lol
//ts a close resemblance between you and @Arjun, both yelp about politics and both don’t understand Indian history and Vedic wisdom//
lol, we see things from world centric approach. and you can not think beyond India, indians are worst followers of dharma. you degrade hinduism by calling it indian religion, indian god. hehe.
@ TRUTHd -
//The highest diversity of R1a1 genome which is present in north india, the highest diversity of J2b north india. The origins of europeans INDEED ARE in north india.//
it shows you inferiority complex that you think that by somehow proving yourself a white race you will become at par with the Europeans, and for sake of your inferiority complex you dont mind calling half the people of your country other race. origin of man started in africa, have you read out of africa theory.
@ both of you – and i repeat again what i said, hindutva movement is intellectually empty and confined to only india. all other religion think beyond india. anyway, you will not get it as it require a whole lot of critical and rational thinking. go to a pandit near your house, tell him your are not getting a good job or good marriage proposals, pay him and he will do some rituals. or may be feed 10 pandits and you will get a good wife or a son. lol, this is your ‘vedic wisdom’ and dharma lol. you people have reduced the whole religion as a prepaid card of mobile phone, where you can pay the company to activate different kind of services. lol. and your dharma goes out of range becuase it doesnt work outside india, roaming charges are too high. lol
TO COLONIAL RAVI. I doubt you have the intelligence to read my post in full.Sooner or later your gona realise WHAT A FOOL YOU REALLY ARE.
If you want to come across as having better morality, integrity and honesty then you should try adhering to truth not colonial centric ideology, hence you name is now known as colonial Ravi.
Colonial ravi you can check these stats in the west, in the east, in the north and in the south, they say the same thing. SO before you run down your colonial education route of calling other RSS, i hope you might show some integrity other than baseless accusations, before i brand you a colonialist.
So tell me why do you overlook Current Science magazine. Which states that it was built to indian vedic system of design…Now arjun said well that doesnt really matter…..which is confusing, as it states that tejo mahal is built to vedic designs, now tell me Why would an islamic enginerr or achictect empoy a kafir vedic culture?…..when non muslims are not even allowed to enter mecca, or the vicinity, why would THEY USE A VEDIC SYSTEM OF DESIGN… first of all im glad you dont deny it, as it would make you look really stupid, cos as you know science is very hard to overcome. So taj mahal WAS BUILT TO A VEDIC SYSTEM..this is not rss this is what the research told. And history proves that islamic armies did take over building and turn them into islamic structures, so arjun its looking quite likely that the taj mahal was created by indians not muslims, or maybe i should say hindus as your most likely going to bring the issue that they where muslims. The muslims empire in india im sure they taxed non muslim more than muslims so WE CAN SEE THAT THE MUSLIMS WHERE VERY FAIR…..by taxing the non muslims more. What amazes me is this, here you have sceintific data the proves it be of vedic origin, but people like arjun and ravi, without ANY evidence they hold on to the beleif it was muslim.
In a paper published in Current Science,
Balasubramaniam has shown that the modular plan of the Taj Mahal complex is based on use of grids of sides measuring 60 and 90 “vitasti”.He says the study has established that the design and architecture of the Taj is based on traditional Indian units codified in “Arthasastra” and that “there is nothing foreign” in its design”.
is current science an RSS PRODUCTION?
it goes to show how people like these colonialist twist their own postion to move away from blame, and dont have ANY integrity.
To understand truth you need to understand the climate in which WE indians have been raised in.
SOME FACTS. Im sure you dont disagree with facts.
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India had the world’s largest economy from the first to eleventh century, and in the eighteenth century, with a (32.9%) share of world GDP in the first century to (28.9%) in 1000 AD, from the eleventh century to the 1600 the Islamic Invasion of India took place, by 1700 AD decline of the Islamic Invasion, with (24.4%).- Angus Maddison (The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective) A Study of Groninen University, reveals that India’s share of the world income went from 24.4% in 1700, to a low of 3.8% in 1952, at the end of the British Empire.
Now, a team from the universities of Manchester and Exeter says it knows where the true credit lies — and it’s with someone else completely.
The “Kerala school,” a little-known group of scholars and mathematicians in fourteenth century India, identified the “infinite series” — one of the basic components of calculus — around 1350.”There were many reasons why the contribution of the Kerala school has not been acknowledged,” he said. “A prime reason is neglect of scientific ideas emanating from the Non-European world, a legacy of European colonialism and beyond.”
“A particularly grave abuse was practiced in Goa in the form of ‘mass baptism’ and what went before it. The practice was begun by the Jesuits and was alter initiated by the Franciscans also. The Jesuits would go through the streets of the Hindu quarter in pairs, accompanied by their Negro slaves, whom they would urge to seize the Hindus. When the blacks caught up a fugitive, they would smear his lips with a piece of beef, making him an ‘untouchable’ among his people. Conversion to Christianity was then his only option.”
The Goan inquisition is regarded by all contemporary portrayals as the most violent inquisition ever executed by the Portuguese Catholic Church. It lasted from 1560 to 1812. The inquisition was set as a tribunal, headed by a judge, sent to Goa from Portugal and was assisted by two judicial henchmen. The judge was answerable to no one except to Lisbon and handed down punishments as he saw fit. The Inquisition Laws filled 230 pages and the palace where the Inquisition was conducted was known as the Big House and the Inquisition proceedings were always conducted behind closed shutters and closed doors. The screams of agony of the culprits (men, women, and children) could be heard in the streets, in the stillness of the night, as they were brutally interrogated, flogged, and slowly dismembered in front of their relatives. Eyelids were sliced off and extremities were amputated carefully, a person could remain conscious even though the only thing that remained was his torso and a head.
The British Empire systematically undermined local Indian textile cottage industries that had produced cloth and clothing by hand for millennia, destroying countless livelihoods so they could sell British mill-made fabrics to the subcontinent. In years to come, Ghandi identified how this kind of forced trading eroded India’s traditional livelihoods, sense of community and peace.
The weavers of India were famous throughout the world for their dexterity. To this day, people speak of handwoven cloth so fine that a whole sari could pass through a wedding ring. The mill-made fabrics from the British could not compete. After trying to prohibit headweaving, the British cut off the middle fingers of master weavers, throughout India this industrial genocide was taking place. The skills was lost.From 1757 to 1947, India’s per capita income failed to improve. In the last half of the 19th century, India’s income fell by 80%; life expectancy fell by 20% between 1872 and 1921; the population hardly grew. There were 17 serious famines in the 2000 years before British rule, but 31 in the 120 years of British rule, which resulted with an estimated 40million plus dead, the last being in 1942 with a loss of life in the region of 6million.( Jewish deaths by Nazi was also around 6million).Responding to famines in pre-British India, its India rulers embargoed food exports, regulated prices, distributed food for free, and relaxed tax collection. Similarly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the Chinese state managed effective famine relief and flood control systems. But the British state’s occupation of India and its Opium and Arrow wars against China destroyed all these systems, and to this day people live in poverty FROM that ERA.
British started a kind of genocide with the law. Blueprints were made with the law to paralyze the peasants of India politically and economically. Peasants had to be more dependants. British initiated slavery. Peasants drowned under loan and were not able to collect courage to resist the British.”Indian labourers had higher earnings than their British counterparts in the 18th century and lived lives of greater financial security, before the British destroyed the native industries”.there was no increase in India’s per capita income from 1757 to 1947″
In 1836, while serving as chairman of the Education Board in India, wrote his father:
“Our English schools are flourishing wonderfully. The effect of this education on the Hindus is prodigious. …… It is my belief that if our plans of education are followed up, there will not be a single idolator among the respectable classes in Bengal thirty years hence. I heartily rejoice in the project.”
Max Muller’s commitment to the conversion of Indians to Christianity. Writing to his wife in 1866 he observed:
It [the Rigveda] is the root of their religion and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last three thousand years.
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So under these condition today we get a generation of COLOINAL RAVIS..people with no integrity, no honesty, no notion of what truth is, but blindly following the western world why? i doubt even HE knows, but im sure it goes along the lines of well it was what i was told in school.
You see ravi has no issue about white european invading india, and we INDIAN SHOULD PRISE HIM AND ACCEPT THAT WITHOUT ANY PROOF. IS that right ravi? Thats because the colonial education promotes a westsern ideology, a pro centric christian ideology, which people like ravi and arjun want to accept with our hands our begging to educate us even more. No education is educaiton when its so politcal, just islamic maddarassa schools, the taliban are educating their children, its not TRUE EDUCAITON its political. In the same way the christian made sure to impose a christian centric education on to india, has created many many FOOLS.
Please tell me why YOU COULDNT refute the sceientific data the PROVES that the taj mahal was built to a vedic system of design? I WILL LOVE AN ANSWER ON THIS OH WISE COLONIAL RAVI..enlighten us please oh great swami………PLEASE TELL US STUPID INDIANS why the taj mahal is built along a VEDIC SYSTEM OF DESIGN………let me guess you dont really have an aswer for that do you? Oh well well just take it from christians that it was alwasy islamic and the scientific data the proves it be to VEDIC in origin, well that DOESNT REALLY MATTER.
Because if tomorrow COLONIAL RAVI creates a priece work and later on someone else claims it as their own..RAVI WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM IN GIVING THE CREDIT TO SOMEONE ELSE…..it that correct colonial ravi? So we have established that truth is not your strong point, and that it matter to you that the taj mahal remains islamic YET evidence proves that it was built along vedic lines, why that doesnt matter to you, maybe your not that intelligent.
Colonial Ravi has no problem with accepting aryan from europe invading, but the other way round is too much for him to accept, well it does go against your colonial education i guess.
So the next matter, which is DNA, many many people can lie about the past, distort it, erase it, twist it, but since technology has moved on it has enabled us to see WHERE HUMANS ACTUALLY CAME FORM WITH very good accurate results.
im PRETTY SURE THE RSS OR HINDUVTA movement have not gone round to all the worlds Scientists to make sure they adhere to RSS IDEOLOGIES. MAYBE ravi maybe they have, maybe they have gone and imposed an hindutva ideology in european scientist and others….i dont knw maybe your alot smarter than us..
But please explain the following, and tell me why ITS SO EASY TO ACCEPT aryans invading india BUT VERY HARD FOR YOU TO ACCEPT INDIANS MIGRATING OUT OF INDIA..
you tell me if the following genetic articles published around the world are in fact REALLY JUST RSS AND HINDUVTA pretending to me europeans right lmaooo….
AGAIN YOU CAN GOOGLE THESE STATS AND EDUCATE YOURSELF…colonial ravi and arjun.
Are these the work of RSS AGENTS or do these facts prove that european imposed a racist lie onto indians which COLONIAL RAVI AND ARJUN have nooooo problem in accepting.
The following PROVES a few things first it as Indian who migrated out into europe, second it was back migration into north africa by indians, Now im sure this is not RSS OR HINDUVTA work, but it certainly supports their view rather than a eurocentric colonialist view that both RAVI AND ARJUN hold on to .
GENETICS >>
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1.There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.
- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups.
2.“The influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. … There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that Central Asia has been necessarily the recent donor and not the receptor of the R1a lineages.” “Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”
-Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. – 2006.
3.When Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, he first reached South-West Asia around 75,000 BP, and from here, went on to other parts of the world. In simple terms, except for Africans, all humans have ancestors in the Indian peninsula. In particular, one migration started around 50,000 BP towards the Middle East and Western Europe: “indeed, nearly all Europeans — and by extension, many Americans — can trace their ancestors to only four mtDNA lines, which appeared between 10,000 and 50,000 years ago and originated from South Asia.”
-Lluís Quintana-Murci,Vincent Macaulay,Stephen Oppenheimer,Michael Petraglia,and their associates
4.A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed “no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals”. Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.
In its conclusions the study proposed “the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins” as well as “the origin of R1a1* … in the Indian subcontinent”.
S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe.
- Sharma et al 2009
5. they declared that the Central Asianorigin of sub-haplogroup R1a and Aryans cannot be substantiated at all on any account of facts.They held, “The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving toIndia together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recentclaims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin forthe majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are
rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H” They found that R2, H and F* are Indian in origin, and it is from India that they have migrated to Central Asia. Their data suggested an indigenous origin for Aryan DNA R1a.
-(Sahoo et al , 2006 )
6.King, Cavalli-Sforza, Underhilland colleagues. They showed that R (especially R1a1 and R2) diversity in India is indigenousin origin and does not support hypothesis of immigration from Central Asia or anywhereoutside. R1a prevalence is not only high in Indo-European speaking Punjab, north india and Ganga Valley, but also in Chenchu and Koya tribes of south India
(Kivisild et al. 2003)
7.Oppenheimer (2003) also had supported Indian origin of R1a which is also called M17 in
genetic circles. He wrote, “And sure enough we find highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, north India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 isnot only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia but diversity characterizes itspresence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as amarker of a ‘male Aryan Invasion of India.’ Study of the geographical distribution and thediversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that Ruslan, along with his son M17,arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India.
8.Detailed study of R1a lineages they found that R1a is oldest in India. This lineage started expanding from Gujarat about 16,000years back. By 14,000 years back or earlier, it reached the Ganga Valley and Indus Valley.Then people carrying R1a genes migrated out of India, through Afghanistan and Tajikistan,reaching Central Asia. From Central Asia they entered East Europe. They inhabited thePontic-Caspian area. Then they populated those areas which are inhabited today by Slavicand Baltic speaking people.
-Underhill and colleagues (2009)
9.Genetics today rules out any possibility of any significant migration from Central Asia toIndia, and supports regular migration from India to Central Asia in all ages of humanprehistory. A large number of lineages of Indian origin—R1a, R2, H, F*, C5, L etc. are found in the Central Asia, but Central Asian lineages are not found in India. The HIV protectivegene is found in the Central India, but not found in India. This rules out Central Asian migration into India.
-Kivisild, T.et al;The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations,., Absence of HIV-1 ProtectiveDelta ccr5 allele in most ethnic populations of India,
Eur. J. Hum. Genetics2001, 9: 794-794
10. Lately, J2 (M172) lineage has been studies in India in detail. Its study in India shows that itsfrequency is 19% in Dravidian speaking castes, and only 11% in Aryan speaking castes.Among the tribes, its frequency is 11%.Hence its arrival through northwest Indian corridorinto India is ruled out. Because it was found that in the northwest India its frequency is lessthan that in south Indian caste population. Its good presence in all segments of Indiansociety proves that either this haplogroup originated in India, or this haplogroup is fixedfrom very old days in India, possibly since Pleistocene, and not just 8,000 years back.
-Sahoo, Sanghmitra et al , A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: Evaluating demic diffusion scenarios,PNAS 2006 Jan., 103(4): 843-848. Also see Sengupta et al , 2006; Trivediet al , 2008
11.Sengupta and colleagues (2006) found that age of J2b (M12), which is a branch of J2, isabout 17,600 years to 10,000 years (mean age 13,800 years) in India. On the other hand thesame figures for Europe for J2 were only 8,700 years and 4,300 years (mean 6,500 years). That means age of J2b, a descendant of J2, in West Asia and Europe is further less than 6500years. The date of J2b expansion in India is thus much before the supposed date of onset of farming into India. This is enough evidence to suggest that J2 and J2b originated in India
Sengupta,2006.
12.Moreover, there are other DNA lineages found in good numbers in West Asia like R1*, R1b3,J*, J2f, I, G and E which are in total more than 53% population of west Asia. These arevirtually absent from India (Sahoo, p. 844). Had people migrated from West Asia to India,these haplogroups would also have arrived into India. This evidence proves that J2 did notarrive from West Asia, because no lineage can ever migrate without other lineages alsomigrating along with it from the place of origin or expansion. On the other hand nearly all of the Indian male lineages like F*, L1, H (M-69), K2, C5, C*, R1a (M-17) etc.are found inWest Asia, proving a definite Indian migration to West Asia. The HIV protective gene, whichis found in West Asia, and Central Asia too, is absent from India
-(Majumder and Dey, 2001).Thus on no account, any migration from West Asia to India can be supported.
13.Sengupta et al noted that frequency and variance of J2b2 are very high in Uttar Pradeshnear Nepal boarder. Regarding place of maximum frequency and variance of J2b2, they
remind, “It should be noted that numerous Mesolithic sites have been observed in thisregion (Kennedy, 2000).” Sengupta’s and Trivedi’s studies certainly indicate that lineage J2 originated in India. In near future we expect to get more extensive report unequivocally confirming origin of HG J2 in India and that Indian Neolithic migrated to West Asia with J2 and other lineages.
14. Sengupta (2006) showed that J2 is well distributed in Indian population.Sengupta et al (2006) found that the haplogroup J2 had a quite high variance, and hence deep time-depthin Indian tribes and castes too. Moreover the frequency is higher in the Dravidian speakingsouth Indians (19%) than the Indo-European speaking north Indians (11%). This destroys theAryan migration into India from West Asia hypothesis of Bellwood (2003 and 2005). The inference what we can derive from Sengupta and colleagues study’s data is that J2 haplogroup originated in India during Last Glacial Maximum, and migrated out of India whenclimate permitted. J2 is 18.7% in south Pakistan, the central place of Indus civilization.Lineage J2 and its derivatives are 23% in Iran and 22.2% in Turkey. (Regueiroet al.
2006).But their variances are less than in India. Semino (2004) gives 18,000 ybp as the time of origin of J2. The variance was also high indicating indigenous origin of the haplogroup in India
15.Thus it seems to be settled by now that J2, J2b, R1a and R1b originated and migrated out of India to Iran and from there to West Asia–more markedly to the Fertile Crescent (Kurdistan,Turkey and Levant). This finding becomes more relevant in light of latest archaeologicalfindings which show presence of Pottery Neolithic in the Ganga Valley in India at about9,000 to 10,000 years before present, i.e. at least 3000 years before West Asian PotteryNeolithic culture (Sharma 1978; Tewari 2006, 2008; Govt. of UP Communique). At that verytime (9,000 ybp) we get Non-Pottery Neolithic in western part of India (now Pakistan) atMehrgarh, which was supported by well trained artisans and domesticated cattle (Jarrige1984).Coppa (2006) found that agriculturist people of Mehrgarh suffered from dentalcaries, probably due to cereal diet, which had been treated by drilling by dentistry practiceas early as 9000 ybp.
16.J2 migration seems to have occurred after R1a migration because of J2’s regular association
with pottery in West Asia. The epicentre of J2 migration was probably 11,000 ybp to 10,000ybp Ganga Valley. Y-chromosomal haplogroup J2 has been found to be regularly associatedwith areas where Neolithic farming is recorded in archaeological excavations (Di Giakomo t al.2004). Thus J2 entered with agriculture into south Europe and Mediterranean islandsfrom Levant and Anatolia Semino
et al.2004). J2 is not only a marker of agriculture but alsoof painted pottery and figurines spreading from West Iran into South Europe throughLevant/Anatolia (King and Underhill 2002). And both of these, pottery and agriculture, occurtogether for the first time in the Ganga Valley at 9000 ybp (Tewari
et al , Sharma, G. R.)
ANIMAL DOMESTICATION
17. Loftus et al (1994) came out with formidable genetic data provingan independent and indigenous domestication of cow in India.They even postulated migration of Indian cow through sea to Africa, which was later proved by further DNAstudies. Since then a large number of studies have supported this. The latest among suchworks is that of Hiendleder et al (2008), which re-confirmed that there are mainly twomatrilineal populations of domesticated cows in Eurasia. One is of Indian ancestry called Zebu or Bos indicus , the other is supposedly of West Asian origin called Bos taurus. Independent domestication of cow and bull in India implied an independent origin of Indian farming culture too. A recent study of DNA of Zebu by Chen (2009) has shown that Bos indicusor Zebu had been domesticated only in India, and not at any other place, ruling out all skepticism in thematter, and proving that it was only after full domestication in India, that Zebu migrated to other parts of the world.
Even those European and WestAsian cows which are taurine in all other respect have zebuine milk protein gene.Thisproves that Indian cows were the first to have been domesticated, and then they migratedto rest of the world with Neolithic migration, where local wild cows were domesticated.These data also prove that the migrated Indian cow (Zebu) hybridized all those lineages.
18.beagha-Awemu (2005) found that the genetic variability of Indian cows in Africa is fargreater than that of African local or taurine cows, especially in Nigeria and Cameroon. Highvariability within
Indicine cow genes in Africa indicates a very old migration from India toAfrica, before domestication of taurine cow. Thus time of introduction of Indian Zebu intoAfrica should be earlier than the molecular date of domestication of taurine cow in Africa,about 22,000 years back. Migration of INDIAN HUMANS and Indian cows in large numbers to the Eastern Horn of Africa at 22,000 ybp, and not via
West Asia, indicates that the landroute to West Asia from India was closed because of aridity.
19.Linguistic evidence corroborates well with genetic findings.English word ‘cow’ has cognates in anskrit (gAva,gau, go), Farsi (gAw ), German (kuhorkuhe), Dutch (koe), Danish (ko),etc. The lexical evidence also proves that India was the source of cow for China and SoutheastAsia. This is reflected in their words for cow– Pinyin Chinese gu, Cantonese ngau, and Thai koh. In Africa, Swahili word for cow ngombe. We know that ‘m’ is added to each nown as aprefix in Swahili language.
20.Bellwood and many other authors think that paddy cultivation was not possible without buffalo which likes water and mud. On the basis of physical features of wild buffalos surviving in world today Bellwood (1995) diagnosed that water buffalo was domesticated for the first time in India in Orissa and Jharkhand area (he actually wrote Bihar instead of Jharkhand, because then Jharkhand was a part of Bihar).Kumar (2007) found, on the basisof DNA studies, that buffalo was domesticated in India 6,500 years back, and from here itmigrated to Southeast Asia and South China.
21.Badr (2000) found a rich diversity of barley varieties in the sub-Himalayan region. Diversity isan indicator of place of origin.Morell and Clegg (2007), on the basis of DNA analysissuggested that there were two centers of domestication of barley, one in the FertileCrescent and the other probably 1500 to 3000 kilometers to the East in western India.Thisstudy also indicated that although, the European varieties of barley originated from theFertile Crescent variant, the eastern nations received barley breeds from Indiandomestication. This leads us to conclude that barley was locally domesticated in the IndusValley area in circa 10,000 B.P
22.We can guess from the dates of Ganga Valley Pottery Neolithic that Pre-Pottery Neolithicmay have started in India about 13,000 ybp to 14,000 ybp. We are forced to assume thatroughly the same time PPN migration out of India to West Asia started.Mus domesticus migration out of India to West Asia must be a direct result of Neolithic migration. Date of migration of Indian male lineage J2b from northern Ganga Valley to West Asia (13,800 yearsback) coincides with that.Mus domesticus
reached the Eastern Mediterranean basin inabout 10,000 ybp.The route map of mice migration as mapped by the geneticists is exactly!!! the same as that of human migration
23.It became further clear that the source of Africa‘s most frequent Y-chromosomal Hg E was India. … The original African male lineages which exist in Africa todayconstitute only 8% of male lineages of sub-Saharan Africa,i.e., 0.25% of malelineages of world. The rest 99.75% descended from India. If we consider onlymaternally mediated lineages, even then 97% of the world population is of Indian descent. The remaining 3% are from purely African lineage and theylive in sub-Saharan Africa.
24.Bradley (2000) shows that the moti? o? dual domestication is a common one in livestock. On the basis o? mtDNA results, he demonstrates that sheep and cattle were domesticated both in the Fertile Crescent and also on the Indian sub-continent.But more likely India, can be in?erred that the domestication o? the sheep and cattle on the Indian sub-continent is the likely source o? the linguistic similarity between Indo-Aryan and Slavic terminology relating to the sheep and cattle (Skulj et al. 2006).
25.Signi?cantly, Hg I-M170 (Figure 2), which is posited to be older than Hg R1a1- M17 and is believed to have expanded ?rom a re?uge in the northern Balkans a?er LGM (Semino et al. 2000), has not been detected in India (Sengupta et al. 2006). Hg I is widespread throughout Europe; ?rom British Isles to Russia and ?rom Baltic Sea to the Balkan peninsula. Te ?requency is particularly high in the Balkans, as high as ~71% in the Croats o? Bosnia-Herzegovina. It is ?requent in Russia and Ukraine at ~20%, and also the rest o? Europe, particularly in Scandinavia. In England the ?requency is 18%, Germany 20%, Denmark 39%, Norway 40%, south Sweden 40% and Estonia 19%. Te estimated age o? Hg I is 22, 000 years, which would give it an abundance o? time ?or expansion, and it is also considerably more widely spread in Europe than Hg R1a1. It should be stressed that, despite the theories o? Aryan home in Germany or Germanic lands (Ghosh 1951: 213-214), Hg I hasnot been detected in India. Tis would rule out Europe as the home o? the Aryans a?er the last Ice Age. Hg I-M170 has been detected in Pakistan at 0.57 % (Sengupta et al. 2006) and at 0.3 % (Firasat et al. 2007), where it could have been brought by the army o? the Alexander the Great (Qamar et al. 2002, Firasat et al. 2007). At lower ?requencies, Hg I is ?ound in the Near East, Caucasus and Central Asia but not in Iran. No greek genome is found in india itself, Alexander the great did not make an impact in India.
26.it is signi?cant, that Hg N3 and also Hg I did not reach Iran and India. Tis can be taken as another indication that the migration(s) carrying Hg R1a1 did not originate in Europe. A northern, central or east European origin o? Hg R1a1, and the subsequent expansions and migrations would have picked up both Hg I and Hg N3 chromosomes and the linguistic afnities with Sanskrit and taken them eastward in the direction o? India. However, high ?requency o? Hg R1a1 chromosomes, and the high linguistic afnities with Sanskrit are primarily common only to Slavic and Indo-Aryan populations. Tis is not the case ?or other European or eastern European genetic markers such as Hg I and Hg N3, since Hg I and Hg N3 are absent ?rom India. Also the virtual absence o? Hg K* also rules out central Asia or Siberia as the homeland o? the Indo-Aryans.
27.Based on the above mentioned genetic markers, one has to conclude that Hg R1a1 chromosomes came ?rom India and reached the Balkans, be?ore Hg N3 expanded between the Baltic and the Black Seas. Also the expansion o? Hg I ?rom the Balkans was impeded and did not reach India. All o? this is in agreement and supports Out o? India Teory (OI?) o? the ‘satem’ branch o? the Indo-European language ?amily. Furthermore, the domestication o? cattle in the Indus valley and no indication o? domestication o? European aurochs (Edwards et al. 2007) ?urther support the out of india theory.
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THIS IS NOT THE WORK OF RSS OR HINDUVTA…BUT still it says the same that from india they migrated OUT in central asia, north africa, and then europe
SO YES THEIR IS SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF INDIAN MIGRATING OUT…!!!!!!
SCIENCE BACKS THIS UP!!!….
This is a highlight a mere glimpse of the information. I suggest you all look into it further. Dont be like colonial ravi, who doesnt mind aryans invading india, but not the other way round.
what RAVI SAID TO ME >
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(((@ TRUTHd -
//The highest diversity of R1a1 genome which is present in north india, the highest diversity of J2b north india. The origins of europeans INDEED ARE in north india.//
it shows you inferiority complex that you think that by somehow proving yourself a white race you will become at par with the Europeans, and for sake of your inferiority complex you dont mind calling half the people of your country other race. origin of man started in africa, have you read out of africa theory”)))))
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ITS ACTUALLY YOUR INFERIORITY COMPLEX in supporting a racist christian theory imposed on to india, which in teh 21st CENTURY IS BEING RIPPED APART BY TRUTH, FACST AND LOGIC..
So i bet all these data that proves YOUR WRONG..wont make a little bit differnce to you.. You a colonialists, with educaiton to suit.. Nothing you say it of any merit or worth, by attacking others USING 18TH CENTURY COLONIAL IDEOLOGIES, and then labelling us as stupid…IS THE BIGGEST JOKE IN THE WORLD, YOU TRULY ARE A PUPPET TO COLONIAL IDEOLOGY
i suspect you READ AND TAKE ANYTHING AS FACT WITHOUT READING IT FURTHER.SO TELL ME can you refute THIS GENETIC DATA?? OR NOT…..it seems to me that science actually confirm what indian have been sayin…but you DONT MIND THE years OF colonial oppresion, of looting of plunder to you that NORMAL, to accepting aryan invading india IS NORMAL..
like i said that your colonial education speaking…not the truth
IN THE END ITS YOU THAT CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!! It goes against your background.
PLEASE i look forward to you REPLY on refuting the genetic data BUT YOU GONA SAY THAT THE RSS PROMOTED IT…lol…..
colonialist are the BIGGEST JOKE ON EARTH, they are macauleyites, for a reason, the british created an eduation to dilute, undremine, and doubt INDIAN UNITY…remeber the biggest threat to christian rule was indian unity, and to the congress who was created by the colonialist are CARRYING ON THIS CONVERSION PROCESS…..
wake up…LET THE TRUTH SHINE..AND stupid idiot ego centric, TWATS like ravi and arjun will be shown for what they really are..
PUPPETS…
In a paper published in Current Science,
Balasubramaniam has shown that the modular plan of the Taj Mahal complex is based on use of grids of sides measuring 60 and 90 “vitasti”.He says the study has established that the design and architecture of the Taj is based on traditional Indian units codified in “Arthasastra” and that “there is nothing foreign” in its design”.\
why ARJUN AND RAVI..does an islamic structure have KAFIR VEDIC ORIGINS…was this just a bigggg mistake by those islamic engineers, where did the architect come form again, was it turkey, iran, france, brazil, where was it……Because it seems SCIENCE has now proven two things…TAJ MAHAL DOES HAVE VEDIC ORIGINS AND THAT INDIAN MAN DID MIGRATE OUT OF INDIA
this is not rss..THIS IS GOING AGAINST THE PRO CENTRIC COLONIAL WESTERN BULLSHIT THAT WAS ENFORCED ON TO OUR GREAT INDIAN EMPIRES….
IF Someone calls you RSS then you call them COLONIALIST…becaues they are.
these two QUOTES are true reflection on BOTH colonial Ravi and Arjun.
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Priya Joshi (Culture and Consumption: Fiction, the Reading Public, and the British Novel in Colonial India) writes: “Often, the implementation of a new education system leaves those who are colonized with a lack of identity and a limited sense of their past. The indigenous history and customs once practiced and observed slowly slip away. The colonized become hybrids of two vastly different cultural systems. Colonial education creates a blurring that makes it difficult to differentiate between the new, enforced ideas of the colonizers and the formerly accepted native practices.”
Ngugi Wa Thiong’o, (Kenya, Decolonising the Mind), displaying anger toward the isolationist feelings colonial education causes, asserted that the process “…annihilates a peoples belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves. It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves.
Pitrim Alexandrovitch Sorokin (1889-1968) Russian-American sociologist of Harvard University had said: ”During the past few centuries the most belligerent, the most aggressive, the most rapacious, the most power-drunk section of humanity has been precisely, the Christian Western world. During these centuries western Christendom had invaded all other continents; its armies followed by priests and merchants have subjugated, robbed or pillaged most of the non-Christians. Native Americans, African, Australian, Asiatic populations have been subjugated to this peculiar brand of Christian love which has generally manifested itself in pitiless destruction, enslavement, coercion, destruction of the cultural values, institutions, the way of life of the victims and the spread of alcoholism, venereal disease, commercial cynicism and the like”.
Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) poet, author, philosopher, Nobel prize laureate.“The chronic want of food and water, the lack of sanitation and medical help, the neglect of means of communication, the poverty of educational provision, the all pervading spirit of depression that I have myself seen to prevail after over a hundred years of British rule make me despair of its beneficence.
“It is the same ship that brought the Bible which also carried guns and alcohol to Africa.” – Michael Baffoe.
The funny thing is is,
if the genetic proved that european invaded india
arjun and ravi would be quoted those sources RIGHT NOW..
If the science article proved it was an islamic structure both arjun and ravi would have produced that data….
but they dont.. why dont they because their VERY EDUCATION lacks content and understanding. Now ravi said have i heard of OUT OF AFRICA, i think i have,
Now tell me did you know that a back migration from asia took place into africa????
Did you know that the taj mahal, the pyramids, the temples of babylon ALL ADHERE TO the shulbsutra measurement of a corded string?
did you know that african cows where part of a back migration into african from Indians??
Dam and their you are calling me AN IDIOT…
go LEARN SOMETHING OF CONTENT BEFORE YOU GO SPEWING YOUR COLONIAL EDUCATION AS FACT…
it aint its easy to disprove.. YOU MACAULEYITE !!
//Colonial Ravi has no problem with accepting aryan from europe invading, but the other way round is too much for him to accept, well it does go against your colonial education i guess.//
you idiot, when did i accepted aryan invasion theory, read my comment again i said there was no invasion north and south indian are same. search google for “The story of our origins Open Magazine” to find the article that all indian are same not different, which is against AIT.
and btw, i went to a arya samaj school not a convent
lol.
you call others people macauleyite, colonial just like pakistani calls anyone who dont agree with them kafir, gaddar, india-agent. same shit different packaging. lol.
Well its obvious that Ghirdhar has reincarnated back as TRUTHde the MC rapping through his buttocks his 500 page essay .Next he will be telling us his oversized colonial shorts are really vedic and the boy scouts in 20s stole them from India lol..You see Ghirdhar will be back again to entertain us for a few pennies soon
lol
PLEASE REPLY both colonial ARJUN AND colonial arya samaj RAVI..both idiots.
THIS IS GONA BE GOOOOOOOD!!
:):):)
YOU IDIOTS KNOW NOTHING…YOU AVOID QUESTION ASKED TO YOU, YOU AVOID THE GENETICS..you cant link a genetic movement out of india and a cultural movement also, THIS YOU CANT BELEIVE ..lol……..when talked about taj mahal asked why its got vedic building code you CANT ANSWER..but you have the guts to call us RSS, MILITANT, you take the piss out of people who you cant answer..lol…YOU are a militant colonially repressed western coconut.
NOW TELL ME RAVII…..WHAT did you say about sikhism and hinduism..When your educated by divide and conquer tactics, you NEVER UNDERSTAND THE REAL TRUTH…
SIKHISM
??????? ?????? ???? ???? ? ???? ??? ???? ???
baasudhaev niranjan dhaathae baran n saako gun angaa ||5||
O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an? iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5||
????? ????? ???? ?????? ?
mukandh manohar lakhamee naaraaein ||
Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God
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???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???
baavan roop? keeaa thudhh karathae sabh hee saethee hai changaa ||3||
O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3||
???? ?????? ???? ???? ? ????? ?
sree raamachandh jis roop n raekhiaa ||
You are the Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature
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??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?
??????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?
Gurmuk? sang? krisan mur?re.
The Lord Krishna becomes the Gurmukh’s Companion.
Guru Granth Sahib Page
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ABOUT THE VEDAS IN SIKHISM.
??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?
The Glory of God is the Sound-current of the Naad, the Celestial Music of Bliss, and the Wisdom of the Vedas.
??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?
Speaking and listening, the silent sages and humble beings join together, in the Realm of the Saints.
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??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?
peeth peethanbar thribhavan dhhanee ||
The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.
??????? ??????? ???? ??? ?
jagannaathh gopaal mukh bhanee ||
The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 1082
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????? ????? ???? ??? ?
sundhar kunddal mukatt bain ||
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.
??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????
sankh chakr gadhaa hai dhhaaree mehaa? saarathhee sathasangaa ||10||
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||
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???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ???
saaval sundhar roop banaavehi baen sunath sabh mohaigaa ||9||
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||
?????? ?????? ??? ??? ?
banamaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain ||
He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes
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???????? ??????? ????? ?
niraahaaree niravair samaaeiaa ||
He is beyond need of? any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.
???? ???? ???????? ????? ?
dhhaar khael chathurabhuj kehaaeiaa ||
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.
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??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?
dhropathee lajaa nivaar oudhhaaran? ||
Savior of Dropadi’s honor.
??????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???
kamalaakanth karehi kanthoohal anadh binodhee nihasangaa ||6||
Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play, unattached
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??????? ?????? ???? ???? ? ???? ??? ???? ???
baasudhaev niranjan dhaathae baran n saako gun angaa ||5||
O Lord, Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues. ||5||
????? ????? ???? ?????? ?
mukandh manohar lakhamee naaraaein ||
Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God
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???? ???? ????? ???? ?
bhagath vashhal anaathheh naathhae ||
You are? the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless.
???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?
gopee naathh sagal hai saathhae ||
The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all
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?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?
banavaalee chakrapaan dharas anoopiaa ||
Adorned with flowers, holding the chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful.
??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???
sehas naethr moorath hai sehasaa eik dhaathaa sabh hai mangaa ||4||
You have thousands of eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of You. ||4||
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???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???
baavan roop keeaa thudhh karathae sabh hee saethee hai changaa ||3||
O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3||
???? ?????? ???? ???? ? ????? ?
sree raamachandh jis roop n raekhiaa ||
You are the Great Raam? Chand, who has no form or feature.
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?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?
dhharaneedhhar ees narasingh naaraaein ||
The Support of the Earth, the man-lion, the Supreme Lord God.
???? ????? ??????? ????? ?
dhaarraa agrae prithham dhharaaein ||
The Protector who tears apart demons with His teeth, the Upholder of the earth.?
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??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???
rikheekaes govaradhhan dhhaaree muralee manohar har rangaa ||1||
The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord? playing His enticing flute. ||1||
???? ???? ??????? ?????? ?
mohan maadhhav kirasa muraarae ||
The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego.
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GURU NANAK CHANTING KRISHNAS NAME
”He assumed? the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed.
His ear-rings, crown and flute? are so beautiful.
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints.
the Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name”
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Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. ||2||
?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?
sunnahu brehamaa bisan mehaes oupaaeae ||
From this Primal Void, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva issued forth.
????? ???? ??? ???? ?
sunnae varathae jug sabaaeae ||
This Primal? Void? is pervasive throughout all the? ages.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 1037
___________________________________________________________________________________BRAHMIN
He alone is a Brahmin, who knows the Lord Brahma, and is attuned to the Love of the Lord.
????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ?
prabh nikatt vasai sabhanaa ghatt anthar guramukh viralai jaathaa ||
God is close at hand; He dwells deep within? the hearts? of all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, know Him.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 68
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bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to? Brahma the Creator.
??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?
sath suhaan sadhaa man chaao ||
He is Beautiful,? True and Eternally Joyful.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 4
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From Ongkaar, the One Universal Creator? God, Brahma? was created.
He kept Ongkaar in his consciousness.
From Ongkaar, the mountains and the ages were created.
Ongkaar created? the? Vedas.
~Sri? Guru Granth Sahib Ji J.
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CASTE SYSTEM IN SIKHISM
The four castes – the Kh’shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas – are equal in respect to the teachings.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p.? 747
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??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?
aapae dhas? ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa ||
He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain.
??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?
aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa ||
He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 553
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???????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ?
braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan ||
There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh’shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are? four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 861
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?? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ? ???? ?
eaek kirasanan sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa th aathamaa ||
The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.
???? ????????????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???
aathamaa baasudhaevasiy jae ko jaanai bhaeo || naanak thaa kaa dhaas hai soee niranjan dhaeo ||4||
Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 469
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???????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???
kirasaa thae jaanoo har har naachanthee naachanaa ||1||
Know that, through Krishna, the Lord, Har, Har, the dance of creation dances. ||1||
???? ????????? ?
pehil purasaabiraa ||
First of all, there was only the Primal Being.
???? ????????? ?
athhon purasaadhamaraa ||
From that Primal Being, Maya was produced.
???? ?? ???? ?
asagaa as ousagaa ||
All that is, is His.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 693
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??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?
babaa breham jaanath thae brehamaa ||
BABBA: One who knows God is a Brahmin.
????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ?
baisano thae guramukh such dhharamaa ||
A Vaishnaav is one who, as Gurmukh, lives the righteous life of Dharma.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 258
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NANAK TALKS OF BUDDHA AS NIRVANAA
???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?
gur jogee purakh miliaa rang maanee jeeo ||
I have met the Guru, the Yogi, the Primal Being; I am delighted with His Love.
???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?
gur har rang ratharraa sadhaa nirabaanee jeeo ||
The Guru is imbued with the Love of the Lord; He dwells forever in Nirvaanaa.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 173
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GURU NANAK and BUDDHISM Links which some buddhist consider shows the unity
In Bhutan and Tibet he is better known as Guru Rinpoche (“Precious Master”) or Lopon Rinpoche,[1] where followers of the Nyingma school regard him as the second Buddha. He said: “My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra. My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantrabhadri. I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere and awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I consume concepts of duality as my diet. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times.”
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SIKHISM about jains
?? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???
eh biDh neh patee-aano thaakur jog jugat kar jain. 2
though one may follow the path of Yogis and Jains
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aar 23 Pauri 9 Krsnachandravatar
???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?
kisan|aiaa avataaru jagi mahamaa dasam sakandhu vakhaanai|
The tenth chapter of the Bhagavat defines the glory of incarnation of Krsna in the world.
???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?
leelaa chalat acharaj kari jogu bhogu ras raleeaa maanai|
He performed many wonderful acts of bhog (merriment) and yoga (renunciation).
??? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?
mahaa bhaaradu karavaaiaonu kairo paando kari hairaanai|
Making Kauravs (sons of Dhrttrastr) and Pandays to fight against each other he further made them wonder struck.
????????? ?????????? ????? ???? ?????? ? ???? ?
indraadik brahamaadikaa mahimaa miti mirajaad n jaanai|
Indr and Brahma et al. donot know the limits of his grandeur.
????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?
mileeaa tahalaa vandi kai jagi raajasoo raajay raanai|
When Raisfiy was arranged by Yudhisthar, all were alloted their duties.
??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ?
mang|aee hari tahal ayh pair dhoi charanodaku maanai|
Krsna himself tookover the duty of washing of the feet of all so that through this service
???????? ??? ???? ????? ???
saadhasangati gur sabadu siaanai ?9?
he could realise the importance of the service of the holy congregation and the Word of the Guru.
~Vaar 23 Pauri 9 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
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??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?
jaram karam mashh kashh hua baraah jamunaa kai kool khael khaeliou jin gindh jeeo ||
He took birth in the Incarnations of the Fish, Tortoise and Wild Boar, and played His part. He played games on the banks of the Jamunaa River.
???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????
naam saar heeeae dhhaar thaj bikaar man gayandh sathiguroo sathiguroo sathigur gubindh jeeo ||4||9||
Enshrine this most excellent Name within your heart, and renounce the wickedness of the mind, O Gayand the True Guru, the True Guru, the True Guru is the Lord of the Universe Himself. ||4||9||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 1403
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??????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?
satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?
duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?
taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|
In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
??????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?
kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?
chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
???? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?
chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????
jahaa tay upajiaa dhiri tahaa samaavai ?49?1?
The jiv merges again in its origin.
~Vaar 1 Pauri 49 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
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??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?
gur oupadhaes saadhh kee sangath bhagath bhagath thaa ko naam pariou ||1|| rehaao ||
Whoever follows the Guru’s Teachings and joins the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is called the most devoted of the devotees. ||1||Pause||
??? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?
sankh chakr maalaa thilak biraajith dhaekh prathaap jam ddariou ||
He is adorned with the conch, the chakra, the mala and the ceremonial tilak mark on his forehead; gazing upon his radiant glory, the Messenger of Death is scared away.
????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???
nirabho bheae raam bal garajith janam maran santhaap hiriou ||2||
He becomes fearless, and the power of the Lord thunders through him; the pains of birth and death are taken away. ||2||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 1105
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???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?
He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread which marked a great event in the Iron age.
???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ?? ? ???? ????
For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sign.13.
??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ????? ? ??? ?
For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed.
~Shri Dasam Granth p. 131
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TALKING ABOUT Vyass.
???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?
naanaa khiaan puraan baedh bidhh chouthees akhar maanhee ||
The various Shaastras, Puranaas, and the Vedas of Brahma, are made up of thirty-four letters.
???? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???
biaas bichaar kehiou paramaarathh raam naam sar naahee ||2||
After deep contemplation, Vyaas spoke of the supreme objective; there is nothing equal to the Lord’s Name. ||2||
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 658
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I cant be asked to GIVE YOU IDIOTS KNOWLEDGE…but even though my understanding of Buddhism is not as deep. Even then BUDDHIST and Hinduism also have deep philosophical links, Hinduism considered Buddha an incarnation of Vishnu, THIS GOES TO SHOW HOW ACCEPTING HINDUISM IS, when they say god is everyone and part of that god, they understand this, but ARJUN AND RAVI will say Hindus are claiming Buddhism, well Buddha was Hindu, and in Hinduism it states Buddha came back to restore dharma. IN Nepal Buddhist and Hindus don’t separate the two and many have no problem in believing in both,.
SO when ravi and arjun say we need to be democratic and equal, they dont really mean it, because Hindus accept Buddha, Nanak, as one, Islam does not Christians do not. So this TWISTED approch form ravi and arjun shows their DIVIDE AND RULE COLONIAL EDUCATION.. arya samaj dnt make me laugh you know NOTHING…and it goes to show.. Devout Buddhist do not believe that Buddha was incarnation of Vishnu but what does Buddhism say, and Hindus don’t mind that devout Buddhist don’t believe this is what is called tolerance..This a quick description as i dont have the time to play fools with you.
A Buddhist version of the tale is found in the Jataka stories, in the Dasharatha Jataka (Jataka Atthakatha 461) in the Pali vernacular. Here Rama is represented as a FORMER LIFE of the Buddha as a Bodhisatva and supreme Dharma King of great wisdom. By a Buddhist!!
Buddhist version, Krishna is called Vasudeva, Kanha and Keshava, and Balarama is his younger brother, Baladeva. These details resemble that of the story given in the Bhagavata Purana.
Since Jataka tales are given from the perspective of Buddha’s previous lives (as well as the previous lives of many of Buddha’s followers), Krishna appears as one of the lives of Sariputra, one of Buddha’s foremost disciples and the “Dhammasenapati” or “Chief General of the Dharma” and is usually shown being Buddha’s “right hand man” in Buddhist art and iconography.[106] The Bodhisattva, is born in this tale as one of his youngest brothers named Ghatapandita, and saves Krishna from the grief of losing his son.[103] The ‘divine boy’ Krishna as an embodiment of wisdom and endearing prankster forms a part of worshipable pantheon in Japanese Buddhism.[107]
In the Pali texts known as the J?takas, one of ??riputra’s previous incarnation was also known as “Vasudeva” Krishna’s father. The story in the Ghata Jataka differs from the Hindu story of Krishna in that Krishna has 9 brothers and a sister and is more of a conquering king, who along with his brothers, conquers all of the mystical land of Jambudvipa.[6] Some contend that the Bhagavad Gita also advises to aspire for refuge in Buddha, Gita 2:49, which states “Buddhau Saranam Anvicche” or “Take refuge in enlightenment”.Similarly one of the nine commonly used recollections (Anussati) of Buddha—”Purisa damma sarathi” which means “charioteer of heroic men”. In the Gita for the first time, Krishna, who is a king himself, is shown as a mere charioteer and guide of the prince Arjuna. There are some who even contend that the Gita is a Buddhist text.[7]In another Jataka, the Dasaratha Jataka, Sariputta is reborn as Lakshmana or Lakkhan to Buddha’s rebirth as R?ma. In the Buddhist tale however, Sita is never kidnapped and Rama merely returns after exile as a glorious king to rule for thousands of years. In the Pra Lak Pra Lam of Laos, Buddha is regarded as an incarnation of Rama.
mohan?rtha? d?nav?n?? b?lar?p? pathi-sthita? ? putra? ta? kalpay?m ?sa m??ha-buddhir jina? svayam ?tata? sa?mohay?m ?sa jin?dy?n asur???ak?n ? bhagav?n v?gbhir ugr?bhir ahi?s?-v?cibhir hari? ?—attributed to Brahmanda Purana, quoted in Bh?gavatat?tparya by Madhva, 1.3.28
Translation: To delude the demons, he [Lord Buddha] stood on the path in the form of a child. The foolish Jina (a demon), imagined him to be his son. Thus the lord Sri Hari [as avatara-buddha] expertly deluded Jina and other demons by his strong words of non-violence.
AGAIN WHAT DOES SIKHISM SAY ABOUT SANATAN DHARMA. once again as you said sikhs and hindu got no connection!!! The FINAL BLOW strikes hard.
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??????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ?
guramukh naadhan guramukh vaedhan guramukh rehiaa samaaee ||
The Guru’s Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru’s Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru’s Word is all-pervading.
???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?
gur eesar gur gorakh baramaa gur paarabathee maaee ||
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ? ??? ?
jae ho jaanaa aakhaa naahee kehanaa kathhan n jaaee ||
Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 2
???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?
naabh kamal thae brehamaa oupajae baedh parrehi mukh kanth savaar ||
From the lotus of Vishnu’s navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 489
_________________________________________________________________________________
GURU GOBIND SINGH STATING THAT GURU NANAKS LINEAGE BEGINS WITH LORD RAMA TWO SON LUV AND KUSH
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Then the two sons of Sita (and Rama) became rulers.
????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????
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They married the Madra (Punjabi) princesses and performed various types of yajnas.23.
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There they founded two cities, the one Kasur and the other Lahore.
The descendants of Lava and Kusha become Bedis and Sodhis
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???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?
Those who studied the Vedas, called Vedis (Bedis), they absorbed themselves in good acts of righteousness.
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??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???
The Sodhi king of Madra Desha (Punjab) sent letters to them, entreating them to forget the past enmities.1.
?????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?
?????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?
The messengers sent by the king came to Kashi and gave the message to all the Bedis.
??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?
??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ???
All the reciters of the Vedas came to Madra Desha and made obeisance to the king.2.
Sacrifice of Guru Tegh Bahadur
????????? ???? ??? ?????? ? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?
????????? ???? ??? ?????? ? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?
When Hargobind left for the abode of the Lord, Har rai was seated in his place.
????????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????
????????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????
Har Krishan (the next Guru) was his son; after him, Tegh Bahadur became the Guru.12.
???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?
???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?
He protected the forehead mark and sacred thread (of the Hindus) which marked a great event in the kali age.
???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ?? ? ???? ????
???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ?? ? ???? ????
For the sake of saints, he laid down his head without even a sigh.13.
??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ????? ? ??? ?
??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ????? ? ??? ?
For the sake of Dharma, he sacrificed himself. He laid down his head but not his creed
THIS IS MY TRUE RESPONSE TO YOU IDIOTS…Read unless your worried.
its funny how arjun responds in a manner that i was expecting. You couldnt accept the genetics so instead resorting to name calling but its obvious that you are an idiot. Here you are assuming the postion of a higher morality yet you lack the basic trait thats being truthful. Their is name for you and its coconut. brown on the out white within. Its typican when people feel threatened they cannot respond in intellectual manner. If you had bother to read the genetics, than you would have learnt something, but you hang on your colonial manner which you clearly display.
You take a colonial western perspective as the start point and then judge every thing against that, well we know the roots of colonial education in india and just as i thought it creates a generation of misguided fools. Instead of understanding you just repeat the old militant traits that your education stems from, you carry on repeating the same old lines. If you had read the genetics that it clearly says that after the migration of man from north africa, their had two back migration from india, the first into central asia, into north africa, and to the east of india south east asia, the second migration took with them the basic fundamentals of agriculture, and cultivation and domestication, which again spread through the western world and eastern world.
THE GENETICS SAY THIS NOT RSS not hinduvta, ….but go on call me another name. Its well known that christians manipulated indian history and virtually everyone else they came in contact with. SO the aryan tale is misrepresentation of the truth, their is similarity between indians and europeans, but the migration is FROM INDIA TO EUROPE.
So if we take these genetics and then map that migration we see movement from north india into central asia, north africa, eastern europe. Now i dont know the whole truth no one does, but if the genetics clearly show that the current education that is imposed in india is clearly lacking if not criminal. The teachings of such lies and misrepresentation are from the colonial era, so rather than attacking me you should quesiton your own origins.
To ravi i agree most of that comment was directed at arjun not you, should have made that clearer. You revelation about arya samaj, doesnt really bother me, arya samaj, like brahma samaj, like singh sabha, have dubious origins if not dubious then definately tainted by christian ideological lines. But if you agree that their was no aryan invasion, and that history proves that india was the land where ALOT of human development took place in terms of civilisation, as genetics is coming out more and more, it completely refutes the western missionary analysis of india. yet that education is still told , that deceit is taking place, and thats the reason why people like arjun originated from, a misrepsentated education which from birth they wholly beleive in. Which is deeply flawed, especially since that aryan invasion theory hold so much racism inbed within it, I dont wana keep on posting quotes but the christian regime passed off into modern india by that what i mean the christian institutions, the education, the goverment and the civil soceity., If india wants freedom then it needs to address these issues. We cannot have a colonial system in place, esp one that serves to divide not unite.
Just reading form your posts i can see your highly deluded. very UP your own ass.When you speak you and arjun your mouth smells of shit. When you claim in the sikh bani they degrade hinduism how much do you know, i am sikh, and before i read that comment i was willing to give you some respect, but now i realise what a fool you really are.
Here you on ONE hand agreeing with the genetics that indians are the same, then same genetics prove that Indian migrated out, the same genetics prove that african zebu cows, chickens, goats, bulls, pigs, where first dometicated in asia,, not europe. The same genetics prove indian migratin into europe.Here the genetics WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT prove that migration took place from india to europe.
Now if their is a genetic link then why CANNOT THEIR BE A CULTURAL LINK, meaning WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY that the tribes that moved out did not take with them VEDIC CULTURE??? IF the genetics prove it then ON WHAT BASIS YOU ARE CALLING Ghirdhar a lier or whatever??? PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THEIR CAN BE NO VEDIC CULTURAL LINKS BETWEEN INDIAN AND EUROPEANS WHEN INDIANS MIGRATED INTO EUROPE??..pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease explain that one!
Ravi You talked alot of crap, alot of bullshit, its well known that islamic armies invaded and took over temples, and churches converted them into islamic buildings..well known LITTLE BOY, we islamic references from ttheir OWN SCRIBES, so now add the two up!! COME ON 1 add 1 is two!!…
science has shown taj mahal is built to a KAFIR VEDIC BUILDING CODE..now tell me again why an islamic architect from turkey i beleive would create the taj mahal to KAFIR VEDIC BUILDING CODE???…plenty of evidence to suggest it was, written persian notation of the taj being their before and it being taken by muslims.. YET YOU QUESTION MY INTEGRITY!!!!!! LOL……
LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR COCONUT..and you should see what i see, a coconut…
You and arjun are clearly devoid of any REAL intellect.and arjun go and suck your missionary boyfriend/ preist off.. he needs your sins.
Ravi after having destroyed your arguments apart showing that what you might consider intelligence i consider it to be the work of a cheap, illogical man. A person who sees the genetic links betweem europeans and indians, knows the migration took place form india to europe, knows that christians like talibans distorted heathen history to conform to their ideals, yet cant grasp that those migration NEVER carried human traits SUCH AS CULTURE, language, and history…. go to bed little boy.
(AND THOSE QUOTES ON SIKHISM WITH THE QUESTION MARKS, are the original gurmakhi scripture that could not be shown for some reaon, just telling you so you wont get confused.)
Did i say that when you speak your mouth smells like your ass…(Next time if you cant reply with logic then don try with insults)
Gridhar at least you have some moral code and integrity and look at the facts and the evidence and not JUST COLONIAL PRO WESTERN PROPAGANDA……..COS RIGHT NOW both arjun and ravi are lookin red in the face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Glory of God is the Sound-current of the Naad, the Celestial Music of Bliss, and the Wisdom of the Vedas.
Speaking and listening, the silent sages and humble beings join together, in the Realm of the Saints
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
~Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ji p. 489
Ravi so whats up?
Indians and Pakistanis with internet connection – Same Shlt Different Packaging ™. lol.
for you. lol “Fools dwelling in darkness, but thinking themselves wise and erudite, go round and round, by various tortuous paths, like the blind led by the blind.” – Katha Upanishad.
Arjun says:
TRUTHd, Why you take things out of context ? Did Balasubramaniam say its a hindu temple ? hes saying that the taj is on is based on traditional Indian units and thats it .Have you checked all the other buildings which are most probably made using traditional Indian units ?
A.its a vedic building code.
If genetics prove a migration from north india to europe then why not an underlying north indian vedic cultural connection? are you that stupid?
you have a habit of assuming a lot, i never said i believe in AIT nor i said indian invaded Europe. i only said the origin of man started in africa. i was talking about millions of years and you were some 3000 yrs. and another assumption of yours, i am not a arya samaji, i only went to arya samaji school.
thanks for calling me colonial, now i now why i dont like this place. i am british from early 19th century trapped in this wrong body, i want a new body. lol hehe.
One last thing, a more recent migration out of India took place. When Islamic invasion took place they displaced the romani gypsies, from north india. Those tribes migrated out into central asia, north africa, central europe and then western europe. Their genetics take them back to north india, punjab and rajasthan area. Now those gypsies from india all the way to ireland, NATURALLY show cultural traits back to india itself. Agree?
now when Indians migrated out of India which the Europeans called the Aryan invasion, but this time the Indian migration into Europe, would they not also then carry the cultural traits of Indian culture? yes or no?
i was talking some 50,000 to 3000years. going back 2million years is pointless, they werent modern humans.
are you all about one liners, gimmicks, slogans, and innuendo ?
Trust me you wouldnt wana live in the uk.Then again it depends on what youve been told.
truth creates the desire in people to do the right thing – me
and being an 19th century british man would probably make you one the worst people in history.
British empire was responsible for so much misery. Maybe thats why your in India you where one of those missionaries creating trouble and for your sins your now an Indian wanting to go back home. lol.
@Truthdeeppp : Please email me on girdhar00000ATgmailDOTcom. You have invoked in me some interest in your knowledge of genetics and since you are sikh, I can further expand my knowledge of sikhism from you as well.
TRUTHdeepp, Whats genetics got to do with the Taj Mahal, far from being an idiot does your DNA sare anything with the Girdhar the begging Dodo ?
Ravi this is a Hindutva loony fringe intellectual who the anti hindus uses to show that all Hindus belong in the mental asylum like himself.That why they write these long essays desperately to get recognition but they do as a nutcase lol
TruthDeep, that is some fantastic info. The Vedic civilization actually did shift base and migrated out of india and then seeded other parts of the world with their culture. The Vedic people infact were the forefathers of all human civilization.Now the Vedic civilization is already known to have existed from before 10,000 B.C. The earliest Rig Vedic reference is that of the vernal equinox of constellation Ashwini which happened in 10,000 B.C and which has been substantiated thro’ current astronomical evidence
So the missing link in our understanding of civilizations is the Vedic culture which thrived on the Indian subcontinent in antiquity and which influenced subsequent civilizations in Sumeria, China, Egypt and the Middle East, Europe and Britain, Southeast Asia and as far away as the Americas. And why and how did it influence other cultures?- Because Vedic civilization was not confined to India. It extended from Iran in the west through Afghanistan Pakistan, India, Tibet, Nepal all the way to Burma and Java Borneo Sumatra archipelago in the East.
So the only thing that would change when the Vedic people shifted base would be their material culture as that is determined by the environment and the prevalent conditions of that location. What will not change is the social organization, the rituals, the religious processes, etc… and that is comprehensively reflected in the beliefs, social structure and practices of the Egyptians for instance.
Here is a piece from a brilliant research paper by the anthropologist Amlan Roychowdry which shows clearly how the egyptian civilization is completely vedic in its source:
“The name Egypt comes from the word “Ajap” which in Sanskrit is Ajapati which signifies Lord Ram as the most illustrious forbearer of the Aja clan. Aja was the grandfather of lord Ram. The word Ram means God and like the Vedic tradition where the rulers were considered as being representatives or descendants of God, the Egyptians also considered their Pharaoh as God or their descendants and their Pharaoh was also named as Ramesis I or II. Here I would like to mention one of the interesting fact about the sphinx. The pyramids have been dated as 3000 years BC and the Sphinx is dated to be 6000 Years BC. This means that when the pyramids were being made, the sphinx stood in front of them as a reminder of a civilization which was antique to them and full of intrigue.
Dr.S.K.Balasubramaniam in his book “Hindu Mythology as prehistory” says that the history of Egypt goes back to thousands of year in time to the period of Yayati who had two wives namely devayani and Sharmishtha. Yayati,by some forces of nature became prematurely old and was thus very depressed. He asked his Eldest son Yadu who was from Devayani to relieve him from his predicament by exchanging his youth with the old age. Yadu refused to do the needful and so did all other sons. It was Puru the youngest and the son from Sharmishtha who agreed to help his father. Henve he was crowned the sovereign of the world superceding his elder brothers. Purus decendants were the Puravas later became known as the Pharaohs of Egypt who ruled over his father’s domain with the elder brothers as subject to him.
According to Count Biornsttierna in his book “The theogony of the Hindus” has lot of information on the Vedic culture in ancient Egypt. It says that the temples of upper Egypt are of greater antiquity than those of the lower Egypt and consequently the religion of Egypt, according to the testimony of those monument, came from India. The chronicles found in the temple of Abydos and Sias testify that the religion of Egypt proceeded from India. Professor Brugsh agrees with this view and in his book “The History Of Egypt” mentions, “We have a right to more than suspect that India, in 8000 Years BC, sent a colony of emigrants who carried with them their art and advanced civilization into what is known as Egypt. The Egyptians came according to their records from a mysterious land now known to lie on the shores of Indian ocean” In this context it will not be prudish on my part to say that 8000 years BC was the period when Lord ram ruled over the Indian subcontinent and that is why Egypt got its name from Lord Ram’s grandfather “Aja”.
In Nav Bharat Times ( A reputed news paper in India ) dated 18th April 1967 reported that in one of the excavation that was being conducted in the Egyptian Pyramid date 3000 years BC and engraved verse from Bhagawad Gita was found. The verse was “vasami jirnani yatha vhiaya” This means “as a person puts on new garment, giving up the old ones, the soul similarly accepts a new material body giving up the old and the useless ones”. This actually explains the ritual of the mummy making and the elaborate burial system in the Egyptian civilization where efforts are made to make the soul comfortable with all necessary things because they believed that the soul will need all these till it finds a material body. Reincarnation in short. Among the vedic people,The Hindus of today, each and every one believes in this concept. This find certainly boost the idea that Egypt was either a part of Vedic culture or was formed by the emigrants from India.
Cont…
Count Biornsttierna again says ,in the same book, “ on comparing the religious system between the Egyptian civilization and the Vedic civilization we are struck by theie resemblance to each other.The principal of trinity with that of unity, the pre-existence of the soul,its transmigration, the division of caste into priest, warriors, traders, and agriculturists are the cardinal points of both system. Even the symbols are same on the shores of The Ganges and The Nile. Thus we find the Lingam of the shiva temples of India in the Phallus of the Ammon temples of Egypt. We find the lotus as a symbol of the sun both in India and in Egypt, and we find symbols of immortality of the soul both in India and Egypt. The power of rendering barren women fruitful is ascribed to the Temple of Shiva in India is also ascribed to the temple of Ammon in Egypt.”
Indian contacts with the Western world date back to prehistoric times. Trade relations, preceded by the migration of peoples, inevitably developed into cultural relations. Evidence of Indian contact with the ancient civilizations to her west, however is certain. Knobbed pottery vases came to Sumer from India and so did cotton. In the Akkadian tongue, Indian cotton was expressed by ideographs meaning “vegetable cloth.” Assurbanipal (668-626 B.C) cultivated Indian plants including the “wool-bearing trees” of India. According to the Skandha Purana, Egypt (Africa) was known as Sancha-dvipa continent mentioned in Sir Willliams Jones’ dissertation on Egypt. At Alexandria, in Egypt, Indian scholars were a common sight: they are mentioned both by Dio Chrysostom (c. 100 A.D.) and by Clement (c. 200 A.D.) Indirect contact between ancient India and Egypt through Mesopotamia is generally admitted, but evidence of a direct relationship between the two is at best fragmentary. Peter Von Bohlen (1796-1840) German Indologist, compared India with ancient Egypt. He thought there was a cultural connection between the two in ancient times. There are elements of folk art, language, and rural culture of Bengal which have an affinity with their Egyptian counterparts and which have not been explained satisfactorily in terms of Aryan, Mongolian, or Dravidian influences. There are similarities between place names in Bengal and Egypt and recently an Egyptian scholar, El Mansouri, has pointed out that in both Egypt and India the worship of cow, sun, snake, and river are common.
Recently, more definitive evidence suggesting contact between India and Egypt has become available. A terracotta mummy from Lothal vaguely resembles an Egyptian mummy and a similar terracotta mummy is found also at Mohenjodaro. In this context it is of interest to note that the Egyptian mummies are said to have been wrapped in Indian muslin. Characters similar to those on the Indus seals have also been found on tablets excavated from Easter Island. Of all the Egyptian objects and motifs indicating some contact between India and Egypt during the Indus Valley period, “the cord pattern occurring in a copper tablet in the Indus Valley and on three Egyptian seals is the most striking link between the two countries. Gordon Childe has said, “In other words, in the third millennium B.C. India was already in a position to contribute to the building up of the cultural tradition that constitutes our spiritual heritage as she notoriously has done since the time of Alexander.”
Neither historical events nor cross-cultural currents can explain the unique parallels in the myths and imagery of ancient Egypt and India. Walafrid Strabo (c. 809–849) German scholar has said: “The lotus flower, sacred to Buddha and to Osiris, has five petals which symbolizes the four limbs and the head; the five senses; the five digits; and like the pyramid, the four parts of the compass and the zenith. Other esoteric meanings abound: for myths are seldom simple, and never irresponsible.” In fact, Hinduism’s pervading influence seems to go much earlier than Christianity. American mathematician, A. Seindenberg, has, for example, shown that the Shulbasutras, the ancient Vedic science of mathematics, constitute the source of mathematics in the antique world of Babylon to Greece: “The arithmetic equations of the Shulbasutras were used in the observation of the triangle by the Babylonians as well as in the edification of Egyptian pyramids, in particular the funeral altar in the form of pyramid known in the Vedic world as smasana-cit.”The flower so prolific in the imagery of both India and Egypt, grows out of the waters and opens its petals to be warmed by the sun: to be fertilized. From the earliest imagery in stone at Sanchi, of the first century BC in India, the lotus is associated with Sri, the goddess of fertility, who is later invoked as Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth and abundance – being worshipped by Buddhists, Jains, and Hindus alike. The lotus is held in each hand by Surya, signifying the fertilizing powers of the sun as he travels through the universe.
In Egypt, the blue lotus appears in the earliest wall paintings of the VI Dynasty at the pyramids of Saqqara and in all funerary stelae. They are offered to the deceased, and held in the hand as thought they possess the power to revitalize them: to bring the deceased back to life. Carved out of blue lapis, along with the golden falcon and the sun that are the symbols of the god Horus, the lotus appears among the funerary treasures from the tomb of Tutankhamen.
The lotus then, becomes a leitmotiv, a symbol most apt since its links the waters with the sun, the earth to sky – signifying fertility and regeneration in both Egypt and India. For, it is the seed of the plant which spells out the cycle of birth-decay-death and rebirth that forms the essential pattern of belief in these two riverine and agricultural societies. In India and Egypt, the rivers Saraswati and Ganga and the Nile have brought sustenance to the land and nourished these civilizations which have survived five millennia. Both these rivers, the Ganga and the Nile, are personified and worshipped. They provide the dramatic backdrop against which myths and indeed created, to explain the topographic conditions of the land.
From its source in the Himalayas to the Bay of Bengal, the Ganga flows some two thousand five hundred kilometers, through the rich deltaic region which is known as Aryavarta, in the most densely populated area of India. Puranic myths recount the divine origins of Ganga, as she fell from heaven to earth in response to penance performed by the sage Bhagiratha: to bring the powers of water to an earth parched for over a thousand years. At the seventh century seaport of Mahabalipuram in south India, this epic theme is entirely carved out of a granite rock spanning almost fifty feet. A natural cleft in the rock allows the rain water to pour down in great torrents – as though this were the descent of a mighty river. Besides this cleft are carved the serpentine forms of the naga devatas (snake divinities), the sun and the moon, the gandharvas and kinnaras (celestial beings), the hunters and animals of the forest – all of them rejoicing in this great event where the divine rive is celebrated as the savior of all mankind. Here is a spectacular instance of the way in which myth is used to relate man to the environment. In this myth one senses an acute awareness of the ecological balance which needs to be maintained: of the vapors of the sea rising to the sky through heat, described in the myth as tapas, and then falling back to earth as the divine river, to flow down through the matted locks of Lord Shiva, on to the Himalayas, to flow back into the ocean.
As in India, so in Egypt, the river is personified in human form. A sandstone relief from the temple of Rameses II at Abydos depicts Hapi, god of the Nile, holding a pair of blue lotus stalks in his hands; suspended from the god’s right arm is the ankh, the symbol of life. Unlike the Ganga, the blue god of the Nile is male, but with one female breast to symbolize his role as nourisher – releasing the waters each year to provide sustenance to mankind. The main presiding deity of the Egyptian pantheon is Osiris, like Yama, god of the dead, whose story of life, death and regeneration has been transmitted to us in great detail by Plutarch. Some extraordinary parallels with the Osirian myth are found among the myths and images of India. Lord Vishnu lied recumbent on the bed of the ocean asleep, as indeed Osiris lied prostate and dead on a bier. The Hindi word for cow means also “ray of illumination,” and in Egyptian lore a cow is sometimes depicted as the source of light in the sky.
Significant also is the fact that Lieutenant Speake, when planning his discovery of the source of the Nile, secured his best information from a map reconstructed out of Puranas. (Journal, pp. 27, 77, 216; Wilford, in Asiatic Researches, III). It traced the course of the river, the “Great Krishna,” through Cusha-dvipa, from a great lake in Chandristhan, “Country of the Moon,” which it gave the correct position in relation to the Zanzibar islands. The name was from the native Unya-muezi, having the same meaning; and the map correctly mentioned another native name, Amara, applied to the district bordering Lake Victoria Nyanza.
“All our previous information,” says Speake, “concerning the hydrography of these regions, originated with the ancient Hindus, who told it to the priests of the Nile; and all these busy Egyptian geographers, who disseminated their knowledge with a view to be famous for their long-sightedness, in solving the mystery which enshrouded the source of their holy river, were so many hypothetical humbugs. The Hindu traders had a firm basis to stand upon through their intercourse with the Abyssinians.” (source: Periplus of the Erythrean Sea – W.H. Schoff p. 229-230).
Modern scholars claim that Akhenaton was the worlds first known monotheist. However, the fact is, he was actually reviving an ancient monotheistic religious tradition. Unknown to most is the true nature of this religion. This religion was not only vedic, but was actually an indiginous Egyptian form of Vaisnavaism. Research has proven Akhenaton’s vedic roots through his familial connections to the Hurrian/Mitanni peoples. Everyone agrees that the Mitanni were a Sanskrit speaking and writing people and they worshipped the vedic gods. What is forgotten is the fact that Akhenaton’s father, his mother, and wife were all related to the vedic Mitanni. Thus, it is no surprise that Akhenaton’s religion has so many vedic similarities. The research of BhaktiAnanda Goswami has proven the Vaishnava nature of his religion. In ancient Egyptian religion, creation began from the form of NHRYN (Narayan) lying on the primordial waters. A lotus grows from His navel, and on this lotus appears the four armed and four headed Heliosphanes (Brahma) who speaks creation. Ancient Mediterranean Vaishnavism can be properly understood when we compare it to the authentic Vaishnava scriptural sources especially Bhagavad-Gita, and Srimad Bhagavatam, where the viratarupa (Universal Form) conception of the Supreme Lord is revealed. For example, Krishna’s self revelation in the “I Am” verses of the Bhagavad-Gita directly parallels the great hymns of HR-Heri of ancient Egypt. Therefore, ancient Egyptian religion considered HR-Heri the origin of all gods and deities. That is why they used the name HR-Heri or Asu (Vasu) along with deities considered to be aspects of Heri. Thus, the god of wealth was called KPHR/Kepe-Heri because in the Gita Krishna says “·I am Kubera”.At the age of eighteen years, he came into complete power of the Kingdom. It was at this time that he proclaimed his faith in One God-The Sun, which he designated by the name of Aton, ie. The Disk or Fiery Orb. He publicly proclaimed his faith in Aton, as the God of Gods. Some have claimed that as a Sun worshipper, Akhnaton was more of an Animist Nature worshiper rather than a devotee of a Supreme Godhead. However Akhnaton’s own words confirm that this is not the case. Akhnaton spoke of the Sun disk as being the Eye of Aton and a representative of Aton’s Power. In the Bhagavad Gita, the Sun is described as one of the unlimited eyes of God’s Universal Form. In the Brahma-Samhita the Sun is also described as the Eye of God. Akhnaton’s reverance of the Sun is properly understood in this context.
The symbol of Aton, as presented by Akhnaton, was an image of the Sun Disc with many sunrays extending out, ending in hands, in a kind of triangle shape. Some scholars have also pointed out that the shape of the Pyramids represents the Sun’s beams shining down to Earth, in a triangle shape, with the top being the Source and spreading out ever wider as it reaches the Earth. The similarity between Akhnaton’s Aton and Surya is indeed striking. The Sanskrit description of the Divine source of light corresponds perfectly with the picture of Aton given in the Egyptian King’s hymns.
The Puranas have a remarkable connection with one of the most important discoveries of the 19th century. In 1858, John Hanning Speke (1827-1864) – Speke was commissioned in the British Indian Army in 1844 – made the discovery that Lake Victoria was the source of the River Nile in Africa. Speke wrote that to some Indian Pundits (Hindu scholars) the Nile was known as Nila, and also as Kaali. Nila means blue and Kaali means dark – both apt descriptions for the Nile near its source. These are mentioned in several Puranas including the Bhavishaya. This went against the conventional wisdom, for Lake Victoria was unknown at the time. Sir Richard Burton, the leader of the Nile expedition, had identified Lake Tangyanika as the source. Speke, however, following upon the advice of a Benares (Varansi) Pundit, insisted that the real source was a much large lake that lay to the north. Following this advice Speke went on to discover Victoria. The Pundit had also told him that the real source were twin peaks as Somagiri, ‘Soma’ in Sanskrit stands for moon and ‘giri’ means peak, and Somagiri therefore are none other than the fabled Mountains of the Moon in Central Africa! The Pundit must have known all this. He published his book Journal of the Discovery of the Source of the Nile in 1863.
The similarities of Egyptian civilization’s, science and religion with the Vedic knowledge are even more amazing than the ones mentioned about the Jews. Specifically,in the philosophical and religious field. The details of the temple worship practiced in Egypt are strikingly similar to Vedic temple worship, including the three sandhya meditations on the sun (Ammon-Ra, the main Deity in Egypt), the form of God as both male and female (Osiris/Isis, assimilated with the Sun and the Moon), the bathing, dressing and decoration of the Deity (with red cloth, still considered in India as the traditional color of cloth to be offered to Deities), arati with the offerings of food and incense, etc. The Egyptian Book of the Dead is an almost exact replica of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is coming to us through the Yaksa Saivite Tantric tradition of Himalayas, which strongly influenced the Vajrayana Buddhism or Lamaism. Egyptian priests had a complicated knowledge about the various subtle bodies and astral traveling (as Tantric Buddhists do), and some bits of knowledge about yoga, too. Egyptian priests were strictly vegetarian (not even eating eggs), followed brahmacarya vows and abstained from intoxicants, and went through several initiations in order to practice their service. Meat was only consumed by them in later periods, and exclusively coming from fire sacrifices. (It is therefore very misguiding to say that Brahmins “became vegetarian” in a later period, after detaching themselves from their “origins” as Jews).
They were also in charge of medicine and astrology, and had an immense knowledge about both. Even the temple decorations used the lotus flower as a symbol of purity and beauty. The list could go on and on. Many ancient Greek scholars (including Plato, Pythagoras, etc.) traveled both to Egypt and to India to get their knowledge. While reading Plato’s and Pythagoras’ teachings, we find exactly the same Vedic knowledge explained in Greek language. Now we know from the Puranas that at the times of Parasurama avatara, the ksatriya kings of Bharata varsa were scattered all over the planet while fleeing the avatara’s killing wrath. We know that a group of such ksatriyas, followed by their family priests and retinue, reached ancient Egypt and established a kingdom there. Other groups settled in South America, Mesopotamia, Northern Europe, and in the lost continent of Atlantis mentioned by Plato and others. Striking similarities can be observed, for example the pyramids that can be found almost exactly identical in South America, Mesopotamia and Egypt. And which also resemble the large and high domes of the most ancient Vedic temples.
There are evidences galore that Vedic civilization was the precursor of all major civilization in the world. Similarities between the Egyptian civilization and the Vedic civilization and the evidence of the later being the progenitor of the earlier is but one example.
There are plenty of similarities between Vedic and Celtic civilization, between Vedic and Anatolian civilization, between Vedic and Mayan civilization etc. The question is the similarities between one and many.
1. about the roma gypsy migration – it was not a proper migration, they didnt migrat from their own wish, those were slaves taken away by the islamic armies and left over in europe when the islamic armies invaded europe, that was 1000 yrs back now the only thing similar between us and them are the genetics. they have left the culture, lang and religion long time back.
2. you are a fool again and again to say that north indian have similarities with Europeans, when you say that you are indirectly saying there are two racing living in india north indian and south indian.
3. you are a fool, who just to prove himself right saying you are a sikh. never seen a sikh in my life who is defending stupidity like you.
4. need to ask yourself some questions.
a. if taj mahal is a temple then what about the story that hands 20,000 workers were cut so they dont make another taj.
b. if its a temple then why didnt the nearby islamic kingdom destroyed it like other temple in north india.
c. even if its using vedic system of measurement its proved nothing, Akbar also had many hindu advisers like birbal does that proves he was a hindu. they may have choose the most appropriate system, after all they were building a tomb not a mosque.
IN the golden temple which is called Hari Mander hari meaning krishna,
the muslims emptied out the sacred water surrounding the temple, put in place dead cows, and in the prayer room set up a whore house.
1756: Abdali again invaded India. In the battle of Panipat, Abdali was the winner against Marhattas. From Delhi, he had brought looted wealth and 2,000 women prisoners. Khalsa liberated them all and also took away most of the looted wealth. Abdali was dejected and extremely angry, as he was returning empty handed. Thus he resolved to come back with enough force to destroy Sikhs. With a large organized force, Abdali again came. Knowing it, the Sikhs vacated Lahore. About 60,000 men, women and children were moving to safety in Malwa and Abdali decided to make a lightning march. He crossed two rivers and covered a distance of 100 miles in just two days. The cavalry took, the slow moving Sikhs by surprise, when they were near the village of Kupp (about 30 miles south of Ludhiana). Some 30,000 Sikhs lost their lives and the rest, escaped further south towards the town of Barnala. This was Wada Ghallughara (Great holocaust). Abdali again blew up the Golden Temple and filled the sarovar with refuse and dead cows to desecrate it!!!!
Also ahmad shah abdali filled the lake of the golden temple with dead cows in the 18th century .
Also Great Mogul Aurangzeb, who first chopped off Bhai Mani Singh’s fingers, joint by joint, then lopped off his limbs, one by one. Another, Baba Sukha Singh, died under Moslem knives after assassinating a Moslem chieftain who had turned the Sikhs’ holy Golden Temple at Amritsar into a BROTHAL.
SO history shows that islamic empire was barbaric, bloody, not democratic, a choice between life and death is not compassion, if they killed dead cows put them into the sacred waters of the golden temple, if they turned the prayer room into a whore house, its very likely they also did the same to the taj mahal, and throughout india which they DID. which you SO RIGHTEOUSLY defend as islamic and true and then call US militant idiots lol, and whereas i try to honor the truth, and give credit to those who ACTUALLY built it and not to those who seeked to destroy, loot, and convert it.
YOU WANA KNOW HOWS ITS possible that indian aryans migrated out and took their culture based on genetics, and how romani gypsies that migrated out from india all the way to ireland….still SHOW cultural traits back to INDIA.
You just need to picture how it was done…..
watch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4aom3IaBQ&feature=related
When you watch the video remember they are one extended genetic family that goes back to the tribes of india, and the further they get away from india and the equator notice how the skin gets lighter in skin tone.but you can still features from the first tribe in india. The gypsies have been wandering europe ever since being forced out by muslims for over 1000years wandering , persecuted and people like YOU deny the truth , a truth which is based on evidence.Indians never enforced that they civilised anyone it was abhramic people but the truth shows in fact our history did play a central role in central asia, european soceities whether they like it or not, and that their has been an attempt by abrhamic faiths to change this truth to make them the creators the ancestors the forefathers..So ravi and arjun are displaying that colonial legacy of western rule for the past 100years. Thats the reason why india is stuttering, people from within miseducated and then carry out actions based on that misunderstanding and dividing up india more and more, in fact people like you become the agents of colonial rule and the destruction of indian unity.
Why should we support a lie?
2.when i say north indians i dont imply two distinct races living in india, i am implying that indian tribes from the northern regions migrated out. Like you said north and south genome is the same as genetics prove. i should have made that clearer. But you cannot deny that is very possible for cultural triats to be passed down through a migration. A more recent migration, the europeans into north south america, and australia, a migration on boat, the mode of transport maybe different butthe migration is the same, american, australian, canadian cultures all show a culteral trait that takes them back to europe.
So like i said genetics underpins history, and its VERY reasonable to assume those migrations from india to central asia, north africa, europe carried key components of the culture at the time, which would have been the vedic culture. So the notion of pyramids, babylon, rome, etc having ancient vedic rootes, had considerable weight behind it.
Priya Joshi (Culture and Consumption: Fiction, the Reading Public, and the British Novel in Colonial India) writes: “Often, the implementation of a new education system leaves those who are colonized with a lack of identity and a limited sense of their past. The indigenous history and customs once practiced and observed slowly slip away. The colonized become hybrids of two vastly different cultural systems. Colonial education creates a blurring that makes it difficult to differentiate between the new, enforced ideas of the colonizers and the formerly accepted native practices.”
Ngugi Wa Thiong’o, (Kenya, Decolonising the Mind), displaying anger toward the isolationist feelings colonial education causes, asserted that the process “…annihilates a peoples belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves. It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves
Ravi.
1.the story about being hands cut off IS A MYTH!!!! it doesnst EXIST!!!! Nor does the black version complete myth, no truth to it at all.
2.indians migrated out of india, into central asia, into north africa, into eastern europe and then into western europe… THE GENETICS PROVE THIS..so those GYPSIES DO SHOWS CULTERAL TRAITS BACK TO INDIA aswell as GENETICS.
WATCH Latcho Drom – Banjaras Indian Rajasthan Gypsy an art video that shows the cultural traits that still exist.
3. SO WHAT im asking you is this!!!, if the romany gypsies moved out 1000years ago, THEY WOULD TAKE CULTURAL TRAITS, cos if you went to a gypsie in ireland, then france, germany, italy, spain, north africa, central asia, and finally india, THEY all display culteral traits BACK TO INDIA. THEN IF INDIAN ARYANS migrated out of india around 10,000-3000years ago and set up parallel colonies WOULD THEY NOT SHOW SIMILARITY TO INDIAN CULTURE…hence its very probable that europe once was a vedic soceity which over time became weaker….So the revelation that babylon, and the pyramids where constructed to the shulb sutra is not THAT OUT OUT OF THIS WORLD…. as the genetics do prove the links!!.if we take the genetics, right, it proves that around 10,000-3000years ago their was a migration out of india,
NOW that migration took them into europe, via central asia, etc, AND THAT WHY ITS LOGICAL to say that THE MIGRATION ALSO TOOK VEDIC CULTURE WITH THEM……..so its not beyond the truth, that if a migration took place form india, that those tribes would take with them their culture!!!!!!!
4. akbar was a hindu ..lmaooo..No her was a ruthless king who had no problem using a hindu adminstrator, tax collecter, or general, as most hindua that faught against him would have died, yet some hindus through fear would have accepted their rule, so this is NOT DEMOCRACY OUT OF CHOICE..even the NAZIS used, the word is USED, jewish administrators, accountants, ITS THE ULTIMATE humilation….dont thik for a second that JUST because some were hindus where working with the muslims that the relationship was created out of LOVE…its more likely fear.
5. just like the singh sabha oganisation, just like arya samaj, brahma, samaj, all these organistion where created in the backdrop of christians occupation, the christian very cleveer, they told each faith to sepereate itsself from the other..hence today we get people like you…who say their no connection no history, no culture, nothing….thats the words of the colonialist..even in the sikh scripture, it only honors krihsna, but cos of the christians interference sikhs like to seperate themselves and in doing that they loose the truth message of dharma.
6.If you read the story on the taj mahal the reason it wasnt destroyed was because of its beauty and second its place is a graveyard, the ultimate humilation to a kafir faith, by placing a dead body in the walls of a temple…..ITS WELL KNOWN that muslims did this!!!!…..as an act of complete superiority. Imagine a great shiva temple, and the the muslims putting a dead body in the center of it!!…..this is what history SHOWS!
TruthDeep, that is some fantastic info.
The Vedic civilization actually did shift base and migrated out of india and then seeded other parts of the world with their culture. The Vedic people infact were the forefathers of all human civilization.Now the Vedic civilization is already known to have existed from before 10,000 B.C. The earliest Rig Vedic reference is that of the vernal equinox of constellation Ashwini which happened in 10,000 B.C and which has been substantiated thro’ current astronomical evidence
So the missing link in our understanding of civilizations is the Vedic culture which thrived on the Indian subcontinent in antiquity and which influenced subsequent civilizations in Sumeria, China, Egypt and the Middle East, Europe and Britain, Southeast Asia and as far away as the Americas. And why and how did it influence other cultures?- Because Vedic civilization was not confined to India. It extended from Iran in the west through Afghanistan Pakistan, India, Tibet, Nepal all the way to Burma and Java Borneo Sumatra archipelago in the East.
So the only thing that would change when the Vedic people shifted base would be their material culture as that is determined by the environment and the prevalent conditions of that location. What will not change is the social organization, the rituals, the religious processes, etc… and that is comprehensively reflected in the beliefs, social structure and practices of the Egyptians for instance.
Here is a piece from a brilliant research paper by the anthropologist Amlan Roychowdry which shows clearly how the egyptian civilization is completely vedic in its source:
“The name Egypt comes from the word “Ajap” which in Sanskrit is Ajapati which signifies Lord Ram as the most illustrious forbearer of the Aja clan. Aja was the grandfather of lord Ram. The word Ram means God and like the Vedic tradition where the rulers were considered as being representatives or descendants of God, the Egyptians also considered their Pharaoh as God or their descendants and their Pharaoh was also named as Ramesis I or II. Here I would like to mention one of the interesting fact about the sphinx. The pyramids have been dated as 3000 years BC and the Sphinx is dated to be 6000 Years BC. This means that when the pyramids were being made, the sphinx stood in front of them as a reminder of a civilization which was antique to them and full of intrigue.
Dr.S.K.Balasubramaniam in his book “Hindu Mythology as prehistory” says that the history of Egypt goes back to thousands of year in time to the period of Yayati who had two wives namely devayani and Sharmishtha. Yayati,by some forces of nature became prematurely old and was thus very depressed. He asked his Eldest son Yadu who was from Devayani to relieve him from his predicament by exchanging his youth with the old age. Yadu refused to do the needful and so did all other sons. It was Puru the youngest and the son from Sharmishtha who agreed to help his father. Henve he was crowned the sovereign of the world superceding his elder brothers. Purus decendants were the Puravas later became known as the Pharaohs of Egypt who ruled over his father’s domain with the elder brothers as subject to him.
According to Count Biornsttierna in his book “The theogony of the Hindus” has lot of information on the Vedic culture in ancient Egypt. It says that the temples of upper Egypt are of greater antiquity than those of the lower Egypt and consequently the religion of Egypt, according to the testimony of those monument, came from India. The chronicles found in the temple of Abydos and Sias testify that the religion of Egypt proceeded from India. Professor Brugsh agrees with this view and in his book “The History Of Egypt” mentions, “We have a right to more than suspect that India, in 8000 Years BC, sent a colony of emigrants who carried with them their art and advanced civilization into what is known as Egypt. The Egyptians came according to their records from a mysterious land now known to lie on the shores of Indian ocean” In this context it will not be prudish on my part to say that 8000 years BC was the period when Lord ram ruled over the Indian subcontinent and that is why Egypt got its name from Lord Ram’s grandfather “Aja”.
In Nav Bharat Times ( A reputed news paper in India ) dated 18th April 1967 reported that in one of the excavation that was being conducted in the Egyptian Pyramid date 3000 years BC and engraved verse from Bhagawad Gita was found. The verse was “vasami jirnani yatha vhiaya” This means “as a person puts on new garment, giving up the old ones, the soul similarly accepts a new material body giving up the old and the useless ones”. This actually explains the ritual of the mummy making and the elaborate burial system in the Egyptian civilization where efforts are made to make the soul comfortable with all necessary things because they believed that the soul will need all these till it finds a material body. Reincarnation in short. Among the vedic people,The Hindus of today, each and every one believes in this concept. This find certainly boost the idea that Egypt was either a part of Vedic culture or was formed by the emigrants from India.
Continued…
Count Biornsttierna again says ,in the same book, “ on comparing the religious system between the Egyptian civilization and the Vedic civilization we are struck by theie resemblance to each other.The principal of trinity with that of unity, the pre-existence of the soul,its transmigration, the division of caste into priest, warriors, traders, and agriculturists are the cardinal points of both system. Even the symbols are same on the shores of The Ganges and The Nile. Thus we find the Lingam of the shiva temples of India in the Phallus of the Ammon temples of Egypt. We find the lotus as a symbol of the sun both in India and in Egypt, and we find symbols of immortality of the soul both in India and Egypt. The power of rendering barren women fruitful is ascribed to the Temple of Shiva in India is also ascribed to the temple of Ammon in Egypt.”
Indian contacts with the Western world date back to prehistoric times. Trade relations, preceded by the migration of peoples, inevitably developed into cultural relations. Evidence of Indian contact with the ancient civilizations to her west, however is certain. Knobbed pottery vases came to Sumer from India and so did cotton. In the Akkadian tongue, Indian cotton was expressed by ideographs meaning “vegetable cloth.” Assurbanipal (668-626 B.C) cultivated Indian plants including the “wool-bearing trees” of India. According to the Skandha Purana, Egypt (Africa) was known as Sancha-dvipa continent mentioned in Sir Willliams Jones’ dissertation on Egypt. At Alexandria, in Egypt, Indian scholars were a common sight: they are mentioned both by Dio Chrysostom (c. 100 A.D.) and by Clement (c. 200 A.D.) Indirect contact between ancient India and Egypt through Mesopotamia is generally admitted, but evidence of a direct relationship between the two is at best fragmentary. Peter Von Bohlen (1796-1840) German Indologist, compared India with ancient Egypt. He thought there was a cultural connection between the two in ancient times. There are elements of folk art, language, and rural culture of Bengal which have an affinity with their Egyptian counterparts and which have not been explained satisfactorily in terms of Aryan, Mongolian, or Dravidian influences. There are similarities between place names in Bengal and Egypt and recently an Egyptian scholar, El Mansouri, has pointed out that in both Egypt and India the worship of cow, sun, snake, and river are common.
Recently, more definitive evidence suggesting contact between India and Egypt has become available. A terracotta mummy from Lothal vaguely resembles an Egyptian mummy and a similar terracotta mummy is found also at Mohenjodaro. In this context it is of interest to note that the Egyptian mummies are said to have been wrapped in Indian muslin. Characters similar to those on the Indus seals have also been found on tablets excavated from Easter Island. Of all the Egyptian objects and motifs indicating some contact between India and Egypt during the Indus Valley period, “the cord pattern occurring in a copper tablet in the Indus Valley and on three Egyptian seals is the most striking link between the two countries. Gordon Childe has said, “In other words, in the third millennium B.C. India was already in a position to contribute to the building up of the cultural tradition that constitutes our spiritual heritage as she notoriously has done since the time of Alexander.”
Neither historical events nor cross-cultural currents can explain the unique parallels in the myths and imagery of ancient Egypt and India. Walafrid Strabo (c. 809–849) German scholar has said: “The lotus flower, sacred to Buddha and to Osiris, has five petals which symbolizes the four limbs and the head; the five senses; the five digits; and like the pyramid, the four parts of the compass and the zenith. Other esoteric meanings abound: for myths are seldom simple, and never irresponsible.” In fact, Hinduism’s pervading influence seems to go much earlier than Christianity. American mathematician, A. Seindenberg, has, for example, shown that the Shulbasutras, the ancient Vedic science of mathematics, constitute the source of mathematics in the antique world of Babylon to Greece: “The arithmetic equations of the Shulbasutras were used in the observation of the triangle by the Babylonians as well as in the edification of Egyptian pyramids, in particular the funeral altar in the form of pyramid known in the Vedic world as smasana-cit.”The flower so prolific in the imagery of both India and Egypt, grows out of the waters and opens its petals to be warmed by the sun: to be fertilized. From the earliest imagery in stone at Sanchi, of the first century BC in India, the lotus is associated with Sri, the goddess of fertility, who is later invoked as Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth and abundance – being worshipped by Buddhists, Jains, and Hindus alike. The lotus is held in each hand by Surya, signifying the fertilizing powers of the sun as he travels through the universe.
In Egypt, the blue lotus appears in the earliest wall paintings of the VI Dynasty at the pyramids of Saqqara and in all funerary stelae. They are offered to the deceased, and held in the hand as thought they possess the power to revitalize them: to bring the deceased back to life. Carved out of blue lapis, along with the golden falcon and the sun that are the symbols of the god Horus, the lotus appears among the funerary treasures from the tomb of Tutankhamen.
The lotus then, becomes a leitmotiv, a symbol most apt since its links the waters with the sun, the earth to sky – signifying fertility and regeneration in both Egypt and India. For, it is the seed of the plant which spells out the cycle of birth-decay-death and rebirth that forms the essential pattern of belief in these two riverine and agricultural societies. In India and Egypt, the rivers Saraswati and Ganga and the Nile have brought sustenance to the land and nourished these civilizations which have survived five millennia. Both these rivers, the Ganga and the Nile, are personified and worshipped. They provide the dramatic backdrop against which myths and indeed created, to explain the topographic conditions of the land.
From its source in the Himalayas to the Bay of Bengal, the Ganga flows some two thousand five hundred kilometers, through the rich deltaic region which is known as Aryavarta, in the most densely populated area of India. Puranic myths recount the divine origins of Ganga, as she fell from heaven to earth in response to penance performed by the sage Bhagiratha: to bring the powers of water to an earth parched for over a thousand years. At the seventh century seaport of Mahabalipuram in south India, this epic theme is entirely carved out of a granite rock spanning almost fifty feet. A natural cleft in the rock allows the rain water to pour down in great torrents – as though this were the descent of a mighty river. Besides this cleft are carved the serpentine forms of the naga devatas (snake divinities), the sun and the moon, the gandharvas and kinnaras (celestial beings), the hunters and animals of the forest – all of them rejoicing in this great event where the divine rive is celebrated as the savior of all mankind. Here is a spectacular instance of the way in which myth is used to relate man to the environment. In this myth one senses an acute awareness of the ecological balance which needs to be maintained: of the vapors of the sea rising to the sky through heat, described in the myth as tapas, and then falling back to earth as the divine river, to flow down through the matted locks of Lord Shiva, on to the Himalayas, to flow back into the ocean.
As in India, so in Egypt, the river is personified in human form. A sandstone relief from the temple of Rameses II at Abydos depicts Hapi, god of the Nile, holding a pair of blue lotus stalks in his hands; suspended from the god’s right arm is the ankh, the symbol of life. Unlike the Ganga, the blue god of the Nile is male, but with one female breast to symbolize his role as nourisher – releasing the waters each year to provide sustenance to mankind. The main presiding deity of the Egyptian pantheon is Osiris, like Yama, god of the dead, whose story of life, death and regeneration has been transmitted to us in great detail by Plutarch. Some extraordinary parallels with the Osirian myth are found among the myths and images of India. Lord Vishnu lied recumbent on the bed of the ocean asleep, as indeed Osiris lied prostate and dead on a bier. The Hindi word for cow means also “ray of illumination,” and in Egyptian lore a cow is sometimes depicted as the source of light in the sky.
Significant also is the fact that Lieutenant Speake, when planning his discovery of the source of the Nile, secured his best information from a map reconstructed out of Puranas. (Journal, pp. 27, 77, 216; Wilford, in Asiatic Researches, III). It traced the course of the river, the “Great Krishna,” through Cusha-dvipa, from a great lake in Chandristhan, “Country of the Moon,” which it gave the correct position in relation to the Zanzibar islands. The name was from the native Unya-muezi, having the same meaning; and the map correctly mentioned another native name, Amara, applied to the district bordering Lake Victoria Nyanza.
“All our previous information,” says Speake, “concerning the hydrography of these regions, originated with the ancient Hindus, who told it to the priests of the Nile; and all these busy Egyptian geographers, who disseminated their knowledge with a view to be famous for their long-sightedness, in solving the mystery which enshrouded the source of their holy river, were so many hypothetical humbugs. The Hindu traders had a firm basis to stand upon through their intercourse with the Abyssinians.” (source: Periplus of the Erythrean Sea – W.H. Schoff p. 229-230).
Modern scholars claim that Akhenaton was the worlds first known monotheist. However, the fact is, he was actually reviving an ancient monotheistic religious tradition. Unknown to most is the true nature of this religion. This religion was not only vedic, but was actually an indiginous Egyptian form of Vaisnavaism. Research has proven Akhenaton’s vedic roots through his familial connections to the Hurrian/Mitanni peoples. Everyone agrees that the Mitanni were a Sanskrit speaking and writing people and they worshipped the vedic gods. What is forgotten is the fact that Akhenaton’s father, his mother, and wife were all related to the vedic Mitanni. Thus, it is no surprise that Akhenaton’s religion has so many vedic similarities. The research of BhaktiAnanda Goswami has proven the Vaishnava nature of his religion. In ancient Egyptian religion, creation began from the form of NHRYN (Narayan) lying on the primordial waters. A lotus grows from His navel, and on this lotus appears the four armed and four headed Heliosphanes (Brahma) who speaks creation. Ancient Mediterranean Vaishnavism can be properly understood when we compare it to the authentic Vaishnava scriptural sources especially Bhagavad-Gita, and Srimad Bhagavatam, where the viratarupa (Universal Form) conception of the Supreme Lord is revealed. For example, Krishna’s self revelation in the “I Am” verses of the Bhagavad-Gita directly parallels the great hymns of HR-Heri of ancient Egypt. Therefore, ancient Egyptian religion considered HR-Heri the origin of all gods and deities. That is why they used the name HR-Heri or Asu (Vasu) along with deities considered to be aspects of Heri. Thus, the god of wealth was called KPHR/Kepe-Heri because in the Gita Krishna says “·I am Kubera”.At the age of eighteen years, he came into complete power of the Kingdom. It was at this time that he proclaimed his faith in One God-The Sun, which he designated by the name of Aton, ie. The Disk or Fiery Orb. He publicly proclaimed his faith in Aton, as the God of Gods. Some have claimed that as a Sun worshipper, Akhnaton was more of an Animist Nature worshiper rather than a devotee of a Supreme Godhead. However Akhnaton’s own words confirm that this is not the case. Akhnaton spoke of the Sun disk as being the Eye of Aton and a representative of Aton’s Power. In the Bhagavad Gita, the Sun is described as one of the unlimited eyes of God’s Universal Form. In the Brahma-Samhita the Sun is also described as the Eye of God. Akhnaton’s reverance of the Sun is properly understood in this context.
The symbol of Aton, as presented by Akhnaton, was an image of the Sun Disc with many sunrays extending out, ending in hands, in a kind of triangle shape. Some scholars have also pointed out that the shape of the Pyramids represents the Sun’s beams shining down to Earth, in a triangle shape, with the top being the Source and spreading out ever wider as it reaches the Earth. The similarity between Akhnaton’s Aton and Surya is indeed striking. The Sanskrit description of the Divine source of light corresponds perfectly with the picture of Aton given in the Egyptian King’s hymns.
The Puranas have a remarkable connection with one of the most important discoveries of the 19th century. In 1858, John Hanning Speke (1827-1864) – Speke was commissioned in the British Indian Army in 1844 – made the discovery that Lake Victoria was the source of the River Nile in Africa. Speke wrote that to some Indian Pundits (Hindu scholars) the Nile was known as Nila, and also as Kaali. Nila means blue and Kaali means dark – both apt descriptions for the Nile near its source. These are mentioned in several Puranas including the Bhavishaya. This went against the conventional wisdom, for Lake Victoria was unknown at the time. Sir Richard Burton, the leader of the Nile expedition, had identified Lake Tangyanika as the source. Speke, however, following upon the advice of a Benares (Varansi) Pundit, insisted that the real source was a much large lake that lay to the north. Following this advice Speke went on to discover Victoria. The Pundit had also told him that the real source were twin peaks as Somagiri, ‘Soma’ in Sanskrit stands for moon and ‘giri’ means peak, and Somagiri therefore are none other than the fabled Mountains of the Moon in Central Africa! The Pundit must have known all this. He published his book Journal of the Discovery of the Source of the Nile in 1863.
The similarities of Egyptian civilization’s, science and religion with the Vedic knowledge are even more amazing than the ones mentioned about the Jews. Specifically,in the philosophical and religious field. The details of the temple worship practiced in Egypt are strikingly similar to Vedic temple worship, including the three sandhya meditations on the sun (Ammon-Ra, the main Deity in Egypt), the form of God as both male and female (Osiris/Isis, assimilated with the Sun and the Moon), the bathing, dressing and decoration of the Deity (with red cloth, still considered in India as the traditional color of cloth to be offered to Deities), arati with the offerings of food and incense, etc. The Egyptian Book of the Dead is an almost exact replica of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is coming to us through the Yaksa Saivite Tantric tradition of Himalayas, which strongly influenced the Vajrayana Buddhism or Lamaism. Egyptian priests had a complicated knowledge about the various subtle bodies and astral traveling (as Tantric Buddhists do), and some bits of knowledge about yoga, too. Egyptian priests were strictly vegetarian (not even eating eggs), followed brahmacarya vows and abstained from intoxicants, and went through several initiations in order to practice their service. Meat was only consumed by them in later periods, and exclusively coming from fire sacrifices. (It is therefore very misguiding to say that Brahmins “became vegetarian” in a later period, after detaching themselves from their “origins” as Jews).
They were also in charge of medicine and astrology, and had an immense knowledge about both. Even the temple decorations used the lotus flower as a symbol of purity and beauty. The list could go on and on. Many ancient Greek scholars (including Plato, Pythagoras, etc.) traveled both to Egypt and to India to get their knowledge. While reading Plato’s and Pythagoras’ teachings, we find exactly the same Vedic knowledge explained in Greek language. Now we know from the Puranas that at the times of Parasurama avatara, the ksatriya kings of Bharata varsa were scattered all over the planet while fleeing the avatara’s killing wrath. We know that a group of such ksatriyas, followed by their family priests and retinue, reached ancient Egypt and established a kingdom there. Other groups settled in South America, Mesopotamia, Northern Europe, and in the lost continent of Atlantis mentioned by Plato and others. Striking similarities can be observed, for example the pyramids that can be found almost exactly identical in South America, Mesopotamia and Egypt. And which also resemble the large and high domes of the most ancient Vedic temples.
There are evidences galore that Vedic civilization was the precursor of all major civilization in the world. Similarities between the Egyptian civilization and the Vedic civilization and the evidence of the later being the progenitor of the earlier is but one example.
There are plenty of similarities between Vedic and Celtic civilization, between Vedic and Anatolian civilization, between Vedic and Mayan civilization etc. The question is the similarities between one and many.
lunatics escaped from the asylum hehehehe
you fool, gypsies were taken away as slaves by islamic armies and then when the islamic armies invaded europe they left the slaves in europe. do you understand the difference between wishful migration for trade, food etc and taken away as slave and sold. you are indirectly defending the islamic looters and whitewashing the history, the gypy population is in million and indian banjara population would be only few lacs at maximum. again you start your india indian indianism rant. ask the gypies if you find one if they give a damn to your india indian indianism rant.
you again defending the islamic looters by saying no hands of workers were cut, i read that when i was in school. lol.
that crap taj mahal is waste, somebody sell the marble or make it a hotel to earn money. there are better a bigger temple in south even older and crappy taj. or donate that crap to pakistan, i hope pakistan bomb it. lol.
your way of debating is similar to muzlims they dont apply their own mind nor they have anything to say from their own logic they just copy paste ready made long text and link. they spend hours posting long text and video link denying evolution. you are similar to them. hehe.
carry on ravi and arjun both have no understanding..
ravi igrnoance on sikhism was shown up
ravis assertion that EVERY gysies was enslaved is a joke, how the hell did they end up ireland then?…unless it was migration for some and enslavenment for others
RAVI I CAN see you balls SHAKING…its okay ill leave you alone…
i dont apply my own mind!!..WEIRD that cos i was thinking the same of you
U deny proven genetics
u deny history
u deny truth
when told of kafir vedic code , you ignore it cos it suits you
when dna proves that gypsies migrated out of india, in what ever capacity still HELD on its CULTERAL ROOTS..did you watch the move..or did you have wank instead?
so LOOK AT YOURSELF FOOL…know that YOU ARE INDEED A FOOL.
Ravi and Arjun its time you SUKED each other off..
Yes the story of aryan is also told in school, doesnt make it so though does it.
Ill end it with this, you said sikhs and hindo no link you said the same thing about buddist, you then talked about genetics which i told genetics reveal two migrations from india YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT….when science reveals the VEDIC BUILDING CODE you dnt beleive that
when migration happens YOU THINK CULTERAL MIGRATION DOESNT..lol
errr OKAYYYYY
ITS A NICE STORY…muslims picked up gypses then left them in europe..!! LMAOOO hahahahha
LIKE I SAID
YOUR A COCONUT……polluted by corrupt knowledge,..
Now im sure your mouth smells like your ass..SO NEXT TIME PUT UR TIE around ur balls.. it suits you
”MUSLIMS picked up gypsies and then LEFT them in europe” lmaoo…
”Muslim made taj mahal using VEDIC KAFIR CODE” lmaoooo
”MIGRATION from india CANNOT migrate culture also”LMAOOO..
Gypsies have been persecuted for 1000years by christians and muslims they know their own story…that migration was used to show you HOW easy indians took vedic culture to the areas that GENETICS proves them to have gone to..
gyspies know their culture,…
ITS YOU THATS THE FORIENGER… COCONUT brown on the outside white within and then talking about morality and integrity..
sort yourself out first before you go attempting to analyse history..
what does indian religion say start with THE SELF…..
By that i dont mean suking on ur own ballbag.
For you muslims who kill kafirs and then give a few kafirs a job means they are democratic..like i said nazis used jewish accountants, administrators, etc, why??….to honor them, or to use them?
In your wold FOK KNOWS….lol……
”lunatics escaped from the asylum hehehehe” Arjun you got a MIRROR…TAKE A LOOK INTO IT,
Rmeber that doubt KNOTT on your tie…around your ball bag..lol