The Hindu secularists : Liberals or Hypocrites?

Pseudo Secularism

Pseudo Secularism

By Sameer Thakkar


Today, we can find many people who are quick to christen famous Hindu gurus as “dhongis” and “pakhandi”.  Such people generally hold the view that to become a guru all one needs is to chant a few mantras and promote the superstitions. These people think that the millions who follow the advice and teachings of such gurus are “fools” and ignorant of the modern science. Moreover, they not only percieve Hinduism as a mix of cast system, dowry, sati pratha etc but also use these assumptions as a basic elements of their argument to further denigrate their own culture and the ancient knowledge. These are the set of people who have never read even the bhagvad-Gita, the works of the world famous scholar Sri Aurobindo or the testimonials of the famous scientists like Heisenberg, Nicholas Tesla, Albert Einstein etc.

On the contrary, today, if any other Hindu promotes the true aspects of hinduism and tries to clear   the myths and distortions, then such people are quick to term him as ‘illiterate and unscientific’. Moreover, if a Hindu questions the aspects and practices of other religions he is termed as “communal”. A person born in a hindu family who doesn’t even know anything regarding these differentiations created by the abrahamic invaders is often termed as anti-minority if he, from his own conscience and objectivity, questions reservation based on religion and animal killing. If he questions the scams, corruption and anti-nationalism of the ministers in the Congress government which thrives on minority appeasment, then he is termed as “BJP-RSS” activist.

A patriot is one who thinks about his country first. It is the conscience of a person which makes him voice against animal killings and other atrocities. How can any person who raises “pro-India” slogans which can be anti-Congress be confused as or termed deliberately as pro-”BJP-RSS”? Reservation based on religion is a direct abuse to the secularism and animal killings are against animal rights and welfare. How can supporting these causes be called “communal”?

Recently, many pseudo secularists wrote articles against Dr.Subramanyam Swamy’s article on ‘How to wipe out Islamic terror”. Aditya Ramakrishnan wrote, “I am 17 years old. I am not a Muslim. I am not a Christian. I was born a Hindu, but I am against religious fundamentalism of any kind because it breeds distrust and tears apart the social fabric of any country.” Parsa Venkateshwar Rao Jr wrote, “Many liberals have been outraged by Swamy’s arguments. The maverick — he hates the term and objects to being described as one — politician is no closet Hindu right-winger.”

If Aditya Ramakrishnan and Venkateshwar are so concerned about Dr.Swamy’s statements, then perhaps they should also similarly discuss on the killing of infidels, idolators, jews and christians as openly mentioned in some other scriptures which divides the society between their faith and the rest of the world. The apologists argue that the term “infidel” refers to one who doesn’t believe in God. “La Iaha Ill Allah Muhammudur Rasool Aallah”, God according to Islam is Allah and there is no other name except Allah and one who doesn’t believe in the abrahamic god is called as “atheist”.

Baburnama and Aurangzebnama themselves testify how Babur and Aurangzeb killed infidels and destroyed temples for the sake of Allah and to spread Islam (e.g Baburnama page 232,370,371, 373, 374, 385-388, 527 etc). The same pattern can be seen in the email sent by the Indian Mujahideen on Varanasi terror attacks. But, the pseudo-secularists seem to have a habit of ignoring such patterns but rather argue that “all religions are the same”. If that was the case, then abrahamic invaders would have prayed in the temples instead of demolishing them, Bamiya Buddha statues would have been honoured and animals like goats and cows would have been protected and not killed to appease some God on some festival. Quran itself sees Allah as the ultimate god and Islam as superior. How is it then such pseudo-seculars are the champions in denigrating Hinduism which doesn’t divide the society between hindus and non-hindus, and pioneers in playing a mute audience where secularism and democracy are openly abused? For a muslim, no other name is to be chanted other than Allah and to appease that “God of mercy” a goat is killed on Bakr-Id. Jihad related terrorism is not just local to India but global. Do we find Hindus, Buddhist, Sikhs, Jains etc blowing up mosques or churches all over the world? Why is it then that the Indian history which is full of temple destructions, conversion by hook or crook etc, as stated by the invaders  themselves, is ignored? Why is it that an open discussion and exposition of such verses and testimonies is called “communal”?

Discussions and questioning of Quran and Mohammed is prohibited and reservation based on religion or animal killing to appease some God are ignored. Ex-Muslims like Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie were exiled. Whereas, thousands of Hindus and non-hindus keep writing inflammatory speeches against Hinduism and India themselves. “O you who believe, take not the  Jews and the Christians for friends.  They are friends of each other. And  whoever amongst you takes them for  friends he is indeed one of them.  Surely Allåh guides not the unjust  people”. (Quran 5.51).  Clearly, the Jews and christians are not friendly according to Quran and the idolators are “unequal and unclean” (Quran 9.19, 9.28). Nobody is a born genius to know about a “holy name”, if a particular animal is really meant to be killed or if a particular category of people are “inferior or unfriendly”. Some apologists argue that such verses reflect the ancient life when Islam started in Arab. Such a connotation also implies that such ancient practices are not applicable in the case of India, a land where “athiti devo bhava” and ideals of “ahimsa” have been the eternal mantras, the cows are treated as divine and the divine elements of the nature are personified and celebrated in the form of paintings and idols. In general, such ancient practices are not compatible with the modern world where people make idols of different forms and personalities for different reasons.

The Indian law gives death punishment in the rarest of the cases, but can the same be said about Sharia law which is based on Quran? “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger [i.e., Muhammad], and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is:  execution, or  crucifixion, or  the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter. ( Quran 5.33)”

Fight those who believe not in Allåh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid  that which Allåh and His Messenger  have forbidden, nor follow the  Religion of Truth, out of those who  have been given the Book, until they  pay the tax in acknowledgement of  superiority and they are in a state of  s subjection  (9.29)

In the western world, the studies of comparative religion itself is a subject and history is seen without any bias or filters. But in India, it seems, any discussion of history which includes abrahamic invasion and mughal atrocities or questioning of “minority scriptures” is seen as “communal”.

References :

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column_the-paradox-called-subramanian-swamy_1567157

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/comment_dr-subramanian-swamy-i-strongly-disagree-with-you_1566760

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch005-100.pdf

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch009-66.pdf

Full texts os Indian Mujahideen on Varanasi blasts : http://www.freedombulwark.net/voices/257

Babur Nama : http://www.archive.org/download/baburnama017152mbp/baburnama017152mbp.pdf

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Comments

  1. Sucheta says

    The Hindu secularists are neither Liberals nor Hypocrites, they have simply been bought out by anti-Hindus elements.

    These ‘sick-oes’ only have one opinion – Hindus are wrong and must be crushed, for their bread and butter (or shall we say wine and dine) depends on it.

  2. Arjun says

    The hindu secularists are not even hindu but are just indians and thats the identity they want everyone to be Indian minus Hindu.so far as im concerned Indian secularism is totally opposite to Hindu dharma

  3. Nikhil says

    Very nice article .
    Secularism can never exist in India unless the same law applies to everyone.Simply because one belongs to minorities he is allowed to carry out animal sacrifice and can have ‘n’ number of children is totally absurd
    Congress vote bank politics

  4. Diwakar Singh says

    Every religion has merely one original & one main holy religious book except Hinduism. Who can disclose which one is the main and original and first holy religious book of Hinduism it is Vedas or Bhagvat Gita or Puranas or Upnishadas or Aranyakas or RamCharit Manas or something other secondly from where Hinduism came into being? If fails to reply the correct answer, stop propagating Hinduism?

  5. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar

    Buddha never asked to create something called buddhism. Science is categorized into many branches like physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy etc. You cannot ask which one is the “main one”, but still chemistry is also science and so is physics!

    Similarly, Veda means knowledge. Ayur+Veda=Ayurveda, it is the science/knowledge dealing with the aspects of life and medicine. It stems from atharveda which is one of the primary categories of Veda. Other categories include RigVeda, Samveda and YajurVeda. Veda promote knowledge and questioning and the science of detachment to know that knowledge objectively. Based on Vedas are its understanding like Upanishads and Gita which is also called as Gitopanishad. All the shrutis and smritis authorize Veda and even in Gita Krishna teaches that one shouldn’t get too much attached to the words of Veda. “Attachment” brings blind belief without questioning and favouritism which obstructs objectivity and hence astik is the one who totally abides by Veda, questions with objectivity to know the veda completely!

    The term religion was alien to the Indian till abrahamic invaders arrived. Quran teaches superiority, killing of kaafirs, idolators etc as exposed by Sameer. Hence, you should understand the usage and definition of the term religion itself and in what context it was used in abrahamic faiths. The Indian science and teachings can never be called a religion. Buddha never taught he was superior or his teachings were to be blindly followed. Same goes with Gita, where Krishna having told Arjun the divine knowledge tells him that this is his opinion and “to do as he wishes” afterwards.

    Sikhism consists of teachings of 10 gurus and hence tolerant and not onesided towards any of the single gurus. Similarly, Hinduism consists of various schools of thoughts and works of various rishis who were tolerant and repsectful of each other.

    “One religion and one main holy book” rather sounds very chauvinistic, inflexible, narrow minded and intolerant. A religious “book” itself sounds very childish. Veda originally were passed to disciples in oral fashion and remembered without any “book”. The truth achieved through meditation, yoga and raising of one’s consciousness to supreme consciousness is embedded in one’s heart. Veda only act as a tool to understand that truth. Its not a “book” that one may need to “mug up” a set of DOs and DONTs as in abrahamic religions.

    Puranas, deal with the historical happenings and hence considered secondary, smirits (i.e one which needs to remembered). Hence hinduism is far from being a religion in the first place. There is a reason why sages call Vedic knowledge as a way of life and the source of timeless/eternal knowledge.

    Abrahamic invaders came and appended an “ism” to individual teachings which they could differentiate through their weaker intellect. Thus teachings of Buddha became Buddhism, Sikh became Sikhism, branch related to Vishnu became Vaishnavism, Shiva became Shaivism etc.

    But they forgot that “Om” and gayatri Mantra are still common in all of them. Luckily we are spared of terminologies like Bhrama-ism, Indra-ism, Agni-ism. Wait a few more years, I am sure people who view Indian science and philosophies through western eye, i.e ones suffering from Max Muller syndrome, would themselves coin new terms like SaiBaba-ism, Ramdev-ism, SriSriRavishankar-ism.

    Indeed, the intellect of abrahamic invaders was laughable and so is that of people who don’t know anything about Hinduism and percieve Indian knowledge through western prism. They don’t even know that dharma means righteousness and duty. It promotes questioning unlike religions which are to be blindly believed without any questioning.

    We all know what happened to those who questioned Quran and muhammed and those questioned the Church in ancient days. Compare it with Buddha questioning the works of corrupt bhrahmins who deviated from their path and promtoed “animal killings and cast system” which were against Veda. Today Buddha is celebrated because he abided by the Vedic spirit of questioning!!

  6. says

    According to you Dharma merely means righteousness and duty which promotes questioning unlike religions, it means Hinduism is not a religion and indirectly you are propagating merely rituals. But dictionary meaning of Dharma is religion and the government merely uses terms religion to denote ones dharma like you people follow it without making any opposition to it. But first of all I never asked explanation or interpretation or write up about Dharma or religion my simple question was that if Muslims has one original holy religious book Quran, Christians has one original holy religious book Bible, Sikhs has one original holy religious book Guru granth Sahib and so on and in the same way Hinduism has what? But, you have cleverly deviated the issue and given all those things which was never asked and not asked, thinking that you must have been sole authority for defining the religion or Dharma and expert of the subject. Deviation from the actual subject and issue clearly points that you have bad idea to misguide all those who blindly believe in fortunes, rebirth, God, Chamtkars etc. Is Hinduism is being run in same way as Britain is being run without any written Constitution. IF so, please anyone who knows better must clarify this first otherwise stop propagating Hinduism. I am not secular or Pseudo secular but of course fundamentalist who have strong sense to believe, faith and respect for original, if anything which is duplicate or not original not good and most the time harmful and harmful even to mankind and society. Terrorism, recent Slut walk in Delhi with blend of rampant Corruption mainly caused due to cancer of casteism is result of following of non original/fundamental. You must be aware about meaning and explanation of fundamental and fundamentalists and it is good to be fundamentalists because it scientific too.

  7. Vijay says

    Diwakar Singh ,

    why does one need one book or one god ? how do you know there is one god ? that idea is only a few thousand years old but before that people believed in many gods.Its an Abrahamic monotheist idea to have one god and one book which has nothing to do with the Hindu concept of divinity where one and many are the same because divinity cant be defined by a number when the divine is beyond all numbers in its essence. Can we measure everything just with a one or do we need more numbers to work out the space and distance ?So where’s this inferior rule that there should be one god or one book ? The hindu tradition and its many scriptures and its many pathes evolves out of the Vedic knowledge which itself doesn’t end in the last full stop in the 4 Vedas because the Vedas are eternal. Nature itself is diverse in its expression and is always evolving just like Hindu thought..

    And then you attack rituals.. like Sikhism doesn’t have rituals itself.So whats waking up the Granth Sahib in the morning and then carrying it on the head then fanning it all day ? If thats not an book worship ritual then what is it ? And what about the 5 ks ?if its not symbolic ritualism .

    .Whats casteism got to do with the slut walk ? When the Gurus and their own children only married into their own caste then what you going on about ?

    Modern Day Sikhism is just an invention of the british ‘Maucliffe’ and has nothing to with the original path of Sikhi which and has left sikhs with an inferiority complex where they want to prove their religion is like Islam with one god and one book so no wonder sikh girls are running of with muslims and converting.So dont worry about us Hindus because Hinduism is expanding but you should be worrrying about your own made up british made version of your religion which is on its last legs…. ..

  8. Vijay says

    Btw the british may have not had a constitution but they ended up ruling half the world and also made up your new religion for you so what your complaining about..

  9. Mirchi says

    Diwakar, if Sikhs have one holy book then what exactly is Dasam Granth? Namdev, Ravidass, Dhannan, Babab Farid all predated Nanak. Yet they are included in Guru Granth Sahib. Were they Sikhs? AS for your attack on casteism, then all 10 gurus were wrong because they married in same Khatri caste. Do you condemn Dhannan for calling himself Jatt and Ravidass calling himself Chamar? And if Nanak invented Sikhism what was his name for it?

  10. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar :

    Going by dictionary meaning you are actually exposing your own ignorance. Dharma of science student is to question. Can you say ‘religion’ of science student is to question? Try to use ‘dharma and religion’ in different contexts and you’d yourself know the difference. Some reading you need to do…

    vedaDOTwikidotDOTcom/dharma-and-religion

    Government of India has also established cast based reservations. But it forgot that Hinduism propogates class system (Varna system) ‘by profession’ and not cast system ‘by birth’.

    So please don’t go superficially by what you see in the society, bur rather what the scriptures say and in what context these terms have been used in them. Even the term Hinduism has no mention in Veda or Upanishad or Buddhism in Buddhist texts.

    The reason your question wasn’t answered in a straight forward manner is because you equated south pole to north pole. Your question assumes that

    1. Hinduism is a religion
    2. It has some book to be followed
    3. It has some commandments or a set of DOs and DONTs

    The reason I answered it differently is because

    1. Hinduism is not a religion
    2. It is not a book, but collection of science and philosophy to be known and question further and NOT FOLLOWED blindly.
    3. It doesn’t have any commandments or a set of DOs and DONTs.

    And hence your question itself was absurd and a kind of reduction to the vast knowledge of the Hindu scriptures. But still if you need a “reduced or a limited answer”, then it would be Vedas!

    Hinduism consists of heirarchy of sciptures. Learn about it! :)

  11. says

    According to you and your team, Hinduism does not mean religion or Dharma but a set of changing concept, theory, philosophy and science and based on nature or scripture occurred in natural way but and according to you Bible, Quran, Gurugranth Sahib etc are neither meaningful nor having good teachings about science and nature. Then, why it requires a lot of efforts from you and your team to make understand about nature. It means, you and your team have command in the knowledge of nature and no one else, don’t deviate the issue of religion and dharma. From the primitive age of no education Human being started gathering and started living collectively in a well organised groups called Society merely because they started following certain customs, traditions written and unwritten rules and laws. But, follower Hinduism has never bothered to know its origin and never question about its originality. And, declare all those questions about Hinduism. In my small knowledge because I am not a Brahmin like you who always go behind explanation and try to evade answer and have habit to be-fooling to those believe in rebirth, Bhgaya, Maya(Mayawati’s theories) and such all useless and harmful theories and belief which not only threatens non Hindus but poses serious threats to all Sanatan Dharmis who believe that their original and first holy religious text is Veda. And, I have sufficient knowledge more than Shankaracharya’s who claim to be demigod of Hindus and Champion of Hinduism. Follower of Hinduism must require to know and learn about Spiritualism first.

  12. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar ;

    Either you don’t understand simple English or you seem to be a muslim trying empty and juvenile words with me.

    1. I never stated Hindu scriptures are changing.
    2. I never stated gurugranth sahib is not meaningful

    Hindu scriptures are eternal and shrutis are evergreen, a breath of fresh air to an intellectual mind, unlike the islamic text which are only 1400 years old and a compilation of absurd mixes of logic like “kill jews, christians, infidels, idolators etc” and prophetic stories.

    Rest of your post is sordid and childish analysis with ‘if, then and else’ based on your childish assumptions on what I might have stated, perhaps an exposition of your inability to read properly.

    Remember, religion categorises! Whereas, Dharma liberates from blind belief and a set of DOs and DONTs like in Quran! Hence, Hindus have a history of acceptance for other people irrespective of their beliefs, because “humanity” itself is the biggest righteousness or “dharma”, whereas “jews and christians” are enemies of muslims because of religion and idolators too are meant to be killed if they don’t accept Islam. Islam has a history of invasion, rapes, murders, destruction of temples and establishment of sharia!

  13. Girdhar says

    And (as to) those who dis-believe in and reject Our messages, they are the companions of the Fire;
    in it they will abide.
    (Quran 2.39)

    Men have a degree over women (Quran 2.228)

    O Messenger, let not those grieve thee who hasten to disbelief, from among those who say with their mouths, We believe, and their hearts believe not, and from among those who are Jews — they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to thee.a
    They alter the words after they are put in their (proper) places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious. And he for whom Allåh intends temptation, thou controllest naught for him against Allåh. Those are they whose hearts Allåh intends not to purify.

    For them is disgrace in this world, and for them a grievous chastisement in the Hereafter. (Quran 5.41)

    So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot escape Allåh and that Allåh will dis-grace the disbelievers.
    (Quran 9.2)

    So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters,a wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free. Surely Allåh is Forgiving, Merciful.
    (Quran 9.5)

    But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith. And We make the messages clear for a people who know.
    (Quran 9.11)

    Fight them; Allåh will chastise them at your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and relieve the hearts of a believing people,
    (Quran 9.14)

    The idolaters have no right to maintain the mosques of Allåh, while bearing witness to disbelief against themselves. These it is whose works are vain; and in the Fire will they abide.
    (Quran 9.17)

    Do you hold the giving of drink to the pilgrims and the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque a equal to (the service of) one who believes in Allåh and the Last Day and strives hard in Allåh’s way? They are not equal in the sight of Allåh. And Allåh guides not the iniquitous people.
    (Quran 9.19)

    O you who believe, the idolaters are surely unclean,a so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. And if you fear poverty, then Allåh will enrich you out of His grace, if He please. Surely Allåh is Knowing, Wise.
    (Quran 9.28)

    SURA 2:39: But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.

    SURA 2:191: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

    SURA 2:194: And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).

    SURA 2:254: …The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers

    SURA 4:89: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them

    SURA 4:91: If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

    Narrated Hisham’s father:
    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

    Critics would consider she had the choice to leave him but what choice had a girl who would not be able to marry any other man (it forbidden by Islam to marry the prophet’s wives) and is brainwashed to think their marriage is arranged by Allah (she was after all, a 9 year old child)

    *In war.

    From the Quran and hadith,

    Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, number 2150

    Abu Said al-Khudri said: “The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse, “And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses”. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.”" [The Qur'an verse is 4:24].
    Great ‘wisdom’, ‘humanity’ and ‘peaceful’ way to celebrate victory!

    *Sex equality

    Quran Chapter 2 Verse 228
    Men have a degree over women.

    Quran 4:34
    Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them ; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

    The favouritism of god towards men, Quran 012.109
    Nor did We send before thee (as messengers) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?

    *Women are equal to dogs and donkey

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490: (Narrated by Aisha, wife of Muhammad)
    The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him.”

    *People ruled by women will never be successful…

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 709Narrated Abu Bakr)
    During the days (of the battle) of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a word I had heard from Allah’s Apostle after I had been about to join the Companions of Al-Jamal (i.e. the camel) and fight along with them. When Allah’s Apostle was informed that the Persians had crowned the daughter of Khosrau as their ruler, he said, “Such people as ruled by a lady will never be successful.”

    This is what the pseudo-secularists should debate on. I challenge those who go against Dr.Swamy that if they have the guts then try to debate on this.

  14. says

    You, so called religious groups claims, all those who are neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Christian, nor Sikh, nor Buddhist, nor Janis, nor Jews and merely believes in religious teachings of Buddhism and spiritual teachings of great Saint Kabir and follows his or her path of human dharma, treating all human being as one and treat entire universe occupied by human being as one home, are pseudo secularist or infield or irreligious according to your theories of Hinduism. But, it is fact beyond all doubt it was Kabir in entire world who was not selfish to run away into jungle to get Moksha but got courage to fight against all such people who spread venom of caste, creed, communities, religion. And, now all those believe in Kabir’s teaching they will stand up fighting against all whoever promotes terrorism, corruptions, casteism, riots etc because Kabir was true spiritual forever and will remain so. And, you may try your best because it is democratic country and country of incarnation where in Satyuga some god will take birth in any Hindus home he will thereafter correct all evil things and like you people have business to do earning for you and for your family to have palatial bungalows and costly cars and have opportunity to deliver sermons to all those semi literate, poor, ignorant citing example for their such pitiable condition on the theories of Bhgaya and Punarjanma and you people will continue to do only till those remains illiterate or don’t receive quality education to understand crux of Dharma or religion and till that time like you people, certainly have business of delivering sermons and lectures on Hinduism, Islam, Christianity and so on.

  15. Gia says

    Diwakar Singh do you even read what you write? ‘Garbage’ is an understatement. Are you suffering from some organic mental dysfunction or are you always like this? Either ways, my sympathies.

  16. says

    I was expecting from you the same answer and you had proved right by issuing such a wonderful and nice statement for me. Your statement has exposed you and your likes. And remember, Kabir have always refused sympathies from all those behave in such wonderful manner who merely abuses if fails to convince for their wrong ideologies.You people must be suffering from some unknown, serious and un curable disease and i am sure same can be cured only if Satyuga comes.But wait till your Kalyuga goes, till then have patience and don’t loose temperament otherwise it might reduce your enjoyment on this earth. And, if you start suffering due to loss of your temperament it would be painful for me because I don’t believe any such theory or philosophy which hurts sentiment, emotions, feeling of a prudent and logical human being. However, you don’t deserve my sympathies but any way I want to see that you may be healthy and good to issue more abuses and show anger for your cause whether it might be right or wrong. Please carry on your abuses but don’t backtrack your unjustifiable fight.

  17. says

    I initial asked two simple question firstly, which one is the first and original scripture or religious book of Hinduism and secondly from where and from what date Hinduism came into being but you with a very clever mind has deviated the subject and quoted all those things which were not asked. Though you agreed after hesitation despite knowing the apex court judgment about Hinduism and finally admitted that Hinduism is a religion and it has some book to follow but malafidely not quoted the names of first and original scripture or not named what book it follows. And, ultimately you lost your temperament when Kabir’s contribution quoted and used wonderful but hopeless statement but you still evaded the answer of simple question but I will carry on asking about the same to all till I don’t get answer of my simple question whether you like it or not I don’t mind as you had admitted that I could be less minded or do not have mind and who don’t read what he writes or he reads but habitual of writing ‘Garbage’ because of suffering of some mental disorder. But, remember almost all those learned men who were great or who became great, they had been labeled as mad, so if you label me mad it is your problems and not mine because I am quite fine and doing well with my all senses and in country like India you are free issue any statement as you don’t believe in constitution of India which had already declare in its judgment Hinduism is not a religion but way of living….

  18. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar :

    An illiterate like you who doesn’t know anything about the Hindu scriptures or even the science, assuming moksha is achieved by ‘running in into jungles’ can only expose his ignorance. For your kind information, kabir’s work is full of Hindu spiritual concepts, such as Brahman, karma and reincarnation. Even Buddha, Gautam Siddharth was a ‘Prince’ who lived in dwellings bigger than ‘palatial bungalows and costly cars’. What has ‘money’ to do anything with giving sermons?

    Scientifically, when you die your chemical composition goes back into the nature. From that nature, comes out another Diwakar. That Diwakar breathes the air consisting of pollution, aroma of cow dung, purified water which was taken from rivers and seas which was colored by the blood of kafirs by the muslims and continue to do so. So even in your life your body is exchanging chemicals with the nature. Buddhist philosophy refers to rebirth, constant enlightenment, that with every happening you are being reborn spiritually. Scientifically, you are changing chemically, physically and mentally every second. On a grander scale, it is called reincarnation!

    In short, you don’t even know what Kabir taught and it was the same Hindu teachings you are taking as a joke. Cast system is not a part of Hindu scriptures, but a distorted Indian practice. Hinduism teach about Varna system or class system and not cast system. This has been clarified on this site alone and many other hindu sites infinite number of times, but idiots like you, disconnected with the Hindu science and philosophy, would be babbling in their own ignorance.

    Kabir was brought up in a family of Muslim weavers. He was found by a Muslim weaver named Niru and his wife, Nima, in Lehartara, situated in Varanasi. Later, he started taking refuge in the Hindu scriptures and started clearing distortions like cast system which again idiots like you think as a part of Hinduism.

    Clearly, you don’t even know what Kabir taught or anything related to Buddha. Spirituality, humanity and moksha were one of the things they taught which are devoid in Quran! Sameer has written a well researched article. Now try to read it. How can anybook which divides the humanity in terms of ‘religion’, promotes hatred towards people who don’t follow the same ‘rules and regulations’ like following a name called “allah” and stupid practices like goat killing, mohammad’s life and his hatred for jews and christians etc be termed under ‘spirituality, humanity and moksha’?

    But again, illiterate ignorants like you who cannot read the scriptures themselves but rather go by the ‘half-read’ biographies of the people would be jumping like little children unable to discuss anything on the original topic of discussion. You are a perfect example of a Hindu pseudo-secularist, hypocrite in nature or perhaps a muslims hiding under a hindu name. Next time check the authenticity of your criticism or if it is even based on Hinduism or some assumptions based ignorance.

    You ignored my last posts. I know you can’t, but if your brains doesn’t completely hurt, then still try to talk on verses from Quran in your next post!

  19. says

    A lot of thanks and I feel pleasure as long as you carry on using absurd and wonderful words and explanation after explanation so that entire world should watch and must be be fully aware who is idiot, bigoted, stupid, anti religious, inhuman and so on and ultimately to conclude who is actually pseudo secularist. I am writing you merely because I have good wishes for your health and well being and I will be continue writing till you don’t answer of initial questions and I hope you wouldn’t run away from the mid way, and you may write further stories on any issue but answer these two: -
    (1) The first and original scripture or religious book of Hinduism.
    (2) The date, time and place with reference about the origination of Hinduism.
    And, if you are unable to understand the above two question, you are allowed to take help of your Shankara Charyas. But, please do write me other wise I may use word coward for you which is not in my nature because I am a Sanatan Dharmi and not a Muslims, Sikh, Hindu, Christian, Jaine, Buddhist, Jews.

  20. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar

    Which is the first original “book” of the science, mathematics and philosophy?

    Hinduism is science, philosophy, mathematics, dharma, consciousness etc. These conceptions are eternal and hence even the modern science is not been able to “date” these scriptures as Hinduism speaks of cyclic nature of time unlike Islam which speaks of the absurd judgement day when non-muslims will be judged. Just like day and night, good and bad, birth and death etc are cyclic, similarly time is cyclic and time is divided into 4 ages. Unlike Islam which consists of killing of jews, kaafirs, christians etc where a barbaric killer like mohammad’s life is discussed in length, Hinduism talks of eternal scientific and spiritual conceptions. At the best, Muhammed can be described as low life, low conscious creature deluded by the effects of Maya.

    And hence you are viewing the Hindu scriptures through limited Islamic angle. Just by labelling yourself as ‘Sanatan dharmi’ doesn’t make you one. A ‘Sanatan dharmi’ is one who is scientific and spiritual by knowledge and intellect unlike Islam where you convert and become muslim irrespective of your knowledge and intellect. At very best, you can be called another Muhammed whose mindset is based on ignorance and thinks mathematics is chemistry and then asks “where is the periodic table in mathematics”?

    ‘Idiot’ refers to one who is ignorant. In many forums, it is not considered as an abuse. But even the term ‘idiot’ would be a gross respect for you as you seem to be suffering from scizophrenia unable to distinguish between concepts and hallucinating that Hinduism is like an abrahamic religion.

    Thank you for your patience and enjoying it all. I am not addressing just to you, but all those who are idiotic like you, so that before replying in the same ignorant way like you, they should understand where idiocy lies and where the conceptions, so that they don’t behave as idiotic like you. Some funny creature you are. :D

  21. says

    It means, you are fully and finally determined not to give specific reply of my simple question asked initially but inclined to give explanation after explanation. Then, I am again asking you very simple question and not only hope that you would be successful this time, question are as follows:-
    (1) According to Hinduism whether Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism are also like science, philosophy, mathematics, dharma, consciousness etc, if not then what they are? and if they are alike theory as Hinduism then why you afraid to follow Christianity?
    (2) According to Hinduism Bible and Gurugranth Sahib are considered science or philosophy or mathematics or dharma or consciousness or what or has no difference than Hinduism theories?
    Since, You and your likes are so brilliant, intelligent, religious and spiritual people, it is therefore, you might be capable to give exact answer like mathematics and Science and this time don’t try to deviate. And, since, you are intelligent and not intellectual, hence, crocked and clever to deviate the issue but I have plenty of patience and I will carry on reading our sermon and lectures. Please do write, because you consider your self a top most contractor of Hinduism.

  22. Girdhar says

    @Diwakar Singh:

    I guess repeating is in your genes.

    Read

    micheldaninoDOTvoiceofdharmaDOTcom/kaliyuga.html
    vedaDOTwikidotDOTcom/dharma-and-religion

    (replace DOT with .)

  23. says

    Ha, ha, ha you had disclosed your genes that you are not genuine but fake and for that I was trying hard but I never thought you would disclose your identity so early and so easily.

  24. Sucheta says

    @ Diwakar ‘Singh’:
    It is you who has disclosed your real identity to everyone else here.. and
    it is you who has no intention of understanding anything.. to go one step further.
    But still, I will try to post answers to your ‘questions’.

    A Simple way to understand Abrahamic religions versus Dharmic faiths –

    ************************************************************************************
    1. Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam.
    2. Foundational stone/s: Abraham, Each religion takes the same ‘teachings’ one step ‘higher’
    one book, started by one – massiha / prophet / khuda,
    started at some time,
    for a select group of ‘special’ people.
    3. Founded in: Jerusalem (Middle East), since around 3,500 years ago.
    4. Moto: Love for own and HATE for the rest!
    (It seeks to divide humanity into two groups – us and them, for an unending war.)
    5. Approach: GOD GETS EVEN WITH MAN through religion by setting whatever
    logical or illogical rules he wishes to.
    This life is all man has to live n enjoy or.. until the Judgment Day..
    not for wasting in ‘trivial’ pursuits like enquiry etc.

    GOAL: God will assign man to heaven or hell after death on Judgment Day.
    *********************************************************************************** VERSUS
    ***********************************************************************************
    1. Dharmic faiths: Hindu Dharm, Jain Dharm, Boddh Dharm, Sikh Dharm
    2. Foundational stone/s: Vedas;
    each subsequent faith elaborates on one or the other facet of
    human values as explained in various scriptural books by myriad of
    learned men and women since thousands of years.
    3. Founded in : Bharat (India) since time immemorial
    just like dharm of water is to be fluid, cool, colorless,
    dharm of man is to be human as explained in the Vedas.
    4. Moto: Love for all and hate for none.
    All humanity is one family.
    5. Approach: MAN REACHES OUT TO GOD through his dharm (actions)
    personal experience being his guide posts.

    Goal: To reach out and merge with God one day after innumerable births,
    just like the journey of a drop of water to the ocean.

  25. Sonali Tripathi says

    Diwakar Singh: Girdhar has tried to clear your doubts so well and now Sucheta has simplified it nicely. We are all trying to answer your queries so there is no point in name calling only the need to expand your vision.

  26. says

    Sucheta ji, I am now impressed and fully agree that you have ultimately given almost correct and true answers of my all questions by admitting that for all Indian religion (Dharmik faith) or universal religion (Dharmik faith) the foundational stone is the Veda. I was having same view but for the sake of bringing clarity, I was trying hard to get clarification on it but Mr Girdhar Saheb has become too offensive and abusive and ultimately lost his cool and temperament which is very bad and harmful for the propagation of true universal Dharma based on the foundation of Vedas. And, he must not be assigned any such works in future to clarify any doubt or speak on such serious issue otherwise he will do more harm than good. Though, he might be having good knowledge about religious teachings but his intention has been always bad and harmful and had always tried hard to misled not me but those believe in Veda as foundational stone of all universal Dharma. Please, Sucheta ji, I am sorry if you feel that my statements have given any hurt. My only motto was, that everyone who has faith in Dharma must be able to understand the concept of universal Dharma based on Vedas thoroughly with simplicity.

  27. Sucheta says

    @ Diwakar
    Sometimes attitude can make all the difference in a dialogue, a relationship, or even in a deal.

    You seem to be coming from an all knowing attitude as you reiterate in your first sentence in the above last post. Even if .. and especially if your purpose is to bring clarity regarding Hindu Dharm, as you state in your last sentence, you need to have a humble atittude as that is the way to knowledge, wisdom and ultimately God according to Dharm.

    I think Giridhar ji has given you the same or similar answers only more elaborately… but you were looking for simple answers.. for which I don’t blame you.. is the mentality of those practicing the Abrahamic faiths.

    I am glad you got your answers.. now hopefully you can share them with others.

  28. says

    No one should repeat no one should try to become over smart about his or her knowledge about anything, because, human brains has never been deciphered and perhaps it will never be deciphered. So, it is my humble request that you don’t give lame excuses about Girdhar ji’s knowledge and his adamant behavior. Why, you waited too long and wasted too much time and energies to submit answers of my simple question by showing knowledge about several religious thoughts and how Mr Girdhar had presumed that I am a pseudo secularist or liberals or Muslim or so on, merely because I asked very simple question ? It shows, Mr Girdhar must be bankrupt of all human sense. Here, is simple question, requires simple answer and this time you wouldn’t show your knowledge in answering following questions:-
    (1) Can any one separate Amrita mixed with poison?
    (2) Whether Amrita mixed with poison is injurious to one health?
    (3) Then how Vedas with many such poisonous religious texts can be referred?

  29. Gia says

    And who the hell do you think you are Diwakar asking us questions? And demanding only customized answers that will fit your tiny brain. What exactly are you doing here anyways? If you’re really so interested in the vedas go to the source and study it directly.. why are you here discussing opinions and interpretations?
    “How can Vedas with such poisonous religious texts”… here we go again… stop giving stupid opinions and questions. Provide proof. Back it up. What are you basing your assumption on? Quote the exact verse of the veda based on whch you are forming your opinions because if you are trying to prove that you like to shoot your mouth on impulse, without understanding what you yourself are thinking, then congrats, you are doing it well.

  30. Sucheta says

    @ Diwakar ‘Singh’

    You said ‘ My only motto was, that everyone who has faith in Dharma must be able to understand the concept of universal Dharma based on Vedas thoroughly with simplicity.’…

    Those who have faith in Dharma do understand things very clearly now specailly after your ‘explaination’ .. Thank you very much.. You do not deserve anything more from anyone here as you come neither for sharing knowledge nor for any kinda of dialogue but .. for a fixed agenda.

    So good luck ‘Bhagwan tumhe satbuddhi dein’ and good bye.

  31. peterparker says

    subramaniam swamy himself is a dhonig..his own son in law is a musalla? how can we trust such person also..

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